Organic Ranking on Amazon: Reverse-Engineering A9 with DeepM.ai with Brian Johnson

In this episode, host Mike Michelini sits down with e-commerce veteran Brian Johnson, founder of DeepM.ai. They dive deep into Brian’s pivot from Amazon PPC to organic ranking, discussing how he’s using deep learning and massive datasets to reverse-engineer Amazon’s elusive A9 search algorithm and secure top organic spots for brands.

• Brian’s VIP Page
• DeepM.ai: Brian Johnson’s current venture focusing on organic Amazon ranking with deep learning.
• Cross Border Summit 2025
• Canopy Management: The Amazon advertising agency Brian co-founded and recently exited.
• PPC Scope: The first dedicated Amazon PPC software Brian co-developed.

Thank you Brian for being on the show, and thank you everybody for listening in.

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Host: All right, okay, thank you everybody for choosing to listen to or maybe watch, we’ve got some pretty cool video here of our episode with Brian Johnson.

It’s been quite a while since we’ve had you on the show and also have you back at our cross-border summit.

How are you doing today, Brian?

Brian Johnson: I’m doing good.

Yeah, it’s, I’m definitely looking forward to cross-border.

I think the last one that I spoke at was 2018, seven years ago.

Isn’t that crazy?

Host: Yeah.

I mean.

The journey comes around, you know, again, and so.

Brian Johnson: It is, it is.

It is.

I mean, I feel like a few of those years are blank for me with the COVID, you know.

Host: Yeah, well.

You know, it’s that joke, you know, the phrase, you know, hindsight is 20-20, it’s like, well, yeah.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Host: How funny that that actually came, kind of came true in that way.

It’s like, yeah, if you look back, you know, what would you have done differently?

It means that also, as far as what would you have done differently in 2020?

Brian Johnson: The interesting thing with COVID, of course, was I was speaking out at an event in Amsterdam for Sellerfest, and that was back in 2019.

At that time, of course, you know, COVID was around in China, it had hit Europe, hadn’t really been acknowledged yet in the States.

So we come back, my whole family, we came back from Amsterdam and we were just, you know, we got home and then we were just immediately like sick, you know.

And we were, and that was like, gosh, October of 2019.

So they didn’t really even label it back then, they didn’t acknowledge it was even in the States back then.

We were not, we were not patient zero, but at the same time, we were, as a family, we were down for like three or four weeks.

Right at the same time that for the agency that I had co-founded that I was with at the time, we were launching another, like our last version of a course that I had, Sponsored Products Academy, and I completely lost my voice.

And so I had to have a dozen people from the team step in and record these videos that I had scripted, because I had no voice whatsoever.

And yeah, so yeah, it’s, I mean, everybody’s got a story, you know, as far as like, where were you when, or how bad was it for you?

But yeah, for us, it was that patient zero, you know, coming back from Europe and it’s like, oh, great, we brought it back from Europe.

Didn’t even know.

Host: Wow.

Brian Johnson: We didn’t actually even know what it was until January.

So it was a couple months later before they, you know, they kind of officially said in the States, you know, here’s the symptoms and we can’t do anything about it yet.

But you know, here are the symptoms and we’re like, we had all that.

Host: Jeez.

So yeah, I didn’t hear people.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Host: I mean, I even didn’t hear about it.

Even when I was in China in January, 2020, I heard about it the first time I remember it was, it wasn’t even that big of a deal, early January.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Host: Yeah.

Well, we all have our stories, brother.

And yeah, we’re here, man.

We survived.

We’re like the survivors.

I mean, there’s been so much, the industry’s that’s five years.

We’re glad we’re five years past that.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Host: Yeah.

So we’ve done three summits since the COVID and then yeah, that we did four before.

So this would be our number seven total.

And that’s cool.

It’s really cool.

Yeah.

Full circle to have you back.

I’m excited to hear about what you’ve been working on, what you’ve been seeing in industry.

You have a new venture now, DeepM.

And I have to say, I still in my brain think of PPC when I talk to you, right?

But now it’s more organic ranking, right?

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

That’s, I mean, when you figure it’s like, so I’ve been in e-commerce for about 17 years.

I’ve been in the Amazon space now for 11 years.

That’s a long time.

Host: Yeah.

Brian Johnson: To be in one industry.

So 11 years and I worked on PPC for eight of those, maybe.

The first year I didn’t.

And then two through nine, I was working on PPC and then I pivoted.

I kind of did like a soft transition over to like conversion rate optimization.

And then like during all that time with, you know, because I had, you know, if you recall back in the day, I had the, I had built, you know, back, you were talking about programming before the show, I had co-developed or I co-founded a software called PPC Scope, doesn’t exist anymore.

Host: Yeah.

Brian Johnson: But it was, it was the first dedicated Amazon PPC software back in the day.

That was back in like 15, 16, something like that.

And so that was my first venture into the advertising piece of this.

Once I had like a community and then software, and then of course that begged to like, oh, we need a training course.

And so we did this big training course with a new partner I had.

And then we launched in 2018, we launched an advertising agency called Canopy Management.

And that one is still running, still running strong, but I have since exited, I exited all those about two years ago, specifically to pivot over to DeepM.

And DeepM is my focus when it comes to how do we leverage technology and grabbing way too much data in order to reverse engineer how A9 sorts products on Amazon and essentially find a roadmap to our users to say, here’s how you rank on Amazon.

And I like to say, and I’m sure I’ll get shut down on this, you know, as soon as I say it again, one more time, probably, is I can show any brand how to rank number one in their niche for any, any non-branded term.

They may not like what it takes, but I can tell them how and why that all works.

Host: Okay.

Brian Johnson: So yeah, it’s, but it’s, it’s fun.

It’s awesome to see the results and, you know, because we’ve been working on this, you know, in beta for two years, which in fact, we just rolled out our, we were using like Google Sheets and you know, so our, our users, our beta users, we were just getting a Google Sheet each week.

Host: Right.

Wow.

Brian Johnson: And so then now we’re switching over to an actually online app that, that just explodes our capabilities and our ability to roll out to the other Amazon marketplaces as well.

Same technology also works on things like TikTok shop and Walmart and Target and Mercado Libre and some of these other e-commerce marketplaces that have search ranking of their own.

So it’s, it’s got a long ways to go, but yeah, the first two years have been, the, the struggle of trying to bring something new to market, not, not my first rodeo as far as like trying to bring something new to market.

But this one, like there’s a lot more people who are like, like, you can’t actually do that.

Can you?

It’s like, is that legit?

You know, is that, you know, is there terms of service?

It’s like, it’s all fine.

It’s just, it’s just a new concept that everybody else that goes against the grain of what most people are preaching.

So.

Host: Okay.

Thanks.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I actually, I think I met from, you know, Dan McMillan, I think is how I connect with originally and he spoke at the summit in 20, he’s been a few times in 2023.

I remember he says like, to be number, he’s, he says, don’t try to be number one because your price has to be, you know, Amazon won’t even rank you if your price isn’t like razor thin margin.

So maybe you want to be number five or four or three, like, and have a higher margin.

I mean, I know you said.

Brian Johnson: And I agree with that.

And a lot of times, you know, we get users who would be like, well, I want to be ranked number one.

No, you don’t.

Yeah.

No, no.

I want to be ranked number one because they haven’t been there before, especially for a popular term.

And it wasn’t about like, what does it take in order to get there?

It was what happens once you’re there.

And so again and again, we, we intentionally observe, okay, you’re at, you know, you move from 20 up to 10, up to five, okay, let’s really like we’re, we’re tracking what’s your net profitability, how efficient are ads, how easy it is, how much resistance are you getting, you know, in position five, four, three, two, one, because some niches you get into and you start getting, you know, you pop up into number one and all of a sudden you start getting tacked, attacked, and you know, are getting violations all of a sudden and negative review blitzes and all kinds of stuff.

And so I’m like, well, you don’t actually want to be a number one position.

Glad to help you get there.

They get there and they’re like, okay, so how do we, how do we back off to number two or three?

It’s like, I can do that.

That’s a good problem to have, you know, like we want to, we want to bump down off of position number one.

It’s like, all right.

Host: Also just, yeah, nevermind the competitors or yeah, the black hat or other also just staying in stock.

The volume.

I mean, I, I’m doing that with one of our products.

We also kind of increased price and purposely moved down just, yeah, we don’t want to be the volume.

I mean, it sounds nice, but like sometimes cash, you know, getting the actual cash flow and you know, other benefits of not being that top spot, king of the king of the mountain.

What’s that one on the goblin king where he’s, or they’re always trying to pull you down, right?

You’re on the road.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

King of the hill kind of game, you know, where you’re always being, trying to be knocked off the top.

Yeah.

I mean, it’s, it’s not like you have to sacrifice everything in order to be a number one position.

It’s not like that.

You simply just need to understand where it makes sense to be number one.

So many keyword research tools and people will tell you, you know, the classic mode has always been, you know, use the keyword research tools, either the basic ones or the advanced ones, use the keyword research tools and go after, you know, optimize your listings and run ads on the high volume search terms that are generally relevant to your products.

And that’s, that has always been a good philosophy until you break it down and you realize, you know, once Amazon rolled out things like Brand Analytics, you can start seeing is like, well, how am I actually benchmarking against my competitors?

Right?

How am I, how’s my relative click-through rate, conversion rate, price point, that kind of stuff.

How am I actually performing against my competitors?

And you realize is that my product does not convert well, or as well as my competitive set on some of those search terms.

But it’s not like, oh, you need to go off for a long tail.

No, it’s not like you need to go after low volume.

It’s you need to find the gaps in the marketplace that your product performs well at and exploit that.

And that kind of visibility requires way more data than a human team is capable of doing.

You have to use automation.

You have to do bulk data collection and bulk data analysis in order to get there.

And so it’s, DeepM might be the only one that can do that right now, but it’s because in part because, you know, the technology continues to move faster and faster.

And so there’s more and more capabilities that sellers get as far as being able to carve out that niche.

You know, it’s not like the old days where it’s like, well, just throw a product.

If you have a better main image, you’re going to win, you know, but, you know, now it’s more like, okay, where’s, where’s my piece of the pie?

How do I find that, right?

Host: Yeah.

Okay.

So any, yeah, I mean, I’m tech, you know, hacks or is it a hack?

I mean, is it consistency?

Like what are some,

Brian Johnson: I mean, I would say it’s consistency because here’s kind of the way that we do this is if you collect enough data, for instance, we’ll go in and we’ll on a specific subcategory, for instance, we go in and we collect.

We take the, well, there’s a couple of different approaches that we take.

One is we don’t use the keyword research tools, right?

We actually use Amazon’s internal data first.

So we’ll look to see for an established, now this doesn’t work on a brand new product launch.

You’ve got to use something else like a keyword research tool or product opportunity explorer inside of Amazon.

But for an established product, there’s a history in Brand Analytics and that will tell you what is, you know, for an individual product, what’s the top hundred search terms that Amazon has already recognized for your product to tell you what it is.

And so if you start there and say, okay, I don’t need to force my listing and change everything in order to get noted, to get indexed and to rank for this high volume search term.

If it is on that list that Amazon tells us in Brand Analytics, then yes, because essentially what we’re doing is we’re just saying, okay, Amazon already sees relevance for these hundred search terms for your product.

Let’s lean into the ones that have the opportunity.

So then we’ll go out and we will pull in multiple other reports from inside of a seller central account or a 1P enhanced account and we’ll pull in from third-party data APIs.

And then we’ll go out and we’ll just brute force, just scrape that entire product niche, right?

That subcategory.

And we’ll look at, we don’t just go like, oh, here’s nine or 10 products you’re competing with.

No, no.

We do the full 300, right?

So we’ll pull 300 product listings for two, three, four, sometimes 500 search terms depending on how many we have to work with.

And so we’ll scrape all the data across all those products, across all those search terms.

And that gives us two things.

One is it tells us, it maps out the patterns that A9 uses in order to sort products from one niche to another, and it’s different.

There’s some common trades that will not be surprising when, you know, if I go through and list, okay, here’s the top five.

But we’ve identified probably over a hundred different, we call them search rank factors.

They’re kind of like the signals to A9 to, hey, I want you to rank my product.

There’s over a hundred and we boil it down to say, okay, for your specific subcategory, for your niche, here’s the top 10 or 12 you need to focus on.

And the first one has a 25% impact on A9.

The second one has an 18%, third one has a 12%, et cetera, right?

Just diminishing returns on down the line.

And so that gives you two things there is the ability to go in and say, okay, focus most of my time on the first, you know, two or three things that impact my A9 ranking the most, and I’ll optimize, maybe that’s title and bullet points and, you know, relative conversion rates, you know, short-term versus long-term, you know, velocity, you know, some of these kinds of things that are, you know, sellers are already familiar with.

And you work to optimize those as best as you can, and then you benchmark that.

Every single one of those signals you benchmark against whoever’s in front of you for that search trip.

If you’re in position 20, cool, you’ve got 19 competitors who are in front of you, right?

And so what are all they doing and how am I optimized compared to how they’re optimized on each one of those?

And so the gold here is we actually have a patent that we filed for some of this technology in the back end, because we have deep learning models that process about 30 to 40 million data points for every single product niche.

There’s no way a human team’s going to do that.

That’s like 30 to 40,000 man hours.

It’s just not going to happen from inside of a brand, let alone a specific product.

But we can actually, you know, we can benchmark how everybody’s doing and we update it every single week.

And so anytime you make a tweak or a competitor changes something, you’re always aware, okay, that I was 72% optimized, and now I’m 71% optimized.

By the way, this competitor that was 65% optimized, now they’re 74% optimized.

They just passed me on this one metric.

I need to correct that.

We’re actually working on a predictive technology that kind of, think of it like a rear view mirror where you’re like, oh, I see somebody coming.

They’re getting closer and closer, how do I, like, how do I optimize them before they get to me?

Host: Got it.

Brian Johnson: So I can protect myself.

And so what that ends up being is, instead of this volatility that most brands experience on search rank, is we get up there and that levels off and we can hold it flat because we know from week to week, what’s our exact relative strength or weakness compared to our competitors for every single search term, and how do we stabilize that?

How do we improve it?

So it does require consistent optimization.

It’s definitely not a, well, you set it up once and it just magically works from there on.

There’s a bunch of things that we learned from doing the data research and the testing.

We’ve worked with over a hundred brands over the last two years and yeah, now we’re starting to really work with more of the, you know, some of the larger agencies and aggregators and accelerators and, you know, work with them in order to, you know, they’ve got obviously clients that they’re working with and they need to be able to stand out.

And so it makes a lot of sense to be able to get a competitive edge as an agency or an aggregator or, you know, there’s, I was surprised at how many, how many, how many companies there are that own, you know, 10, 15, 20 brands, you know, that either they’ve built or they’ve acquired over time.

And you’re like, I’ve never heard of you and they’re like, yeah, that’s the point, but they get it, you know, they, I don’t think anybody ever really gets the concept, you know, of what we’re doing.

It took me three months to get it into my head, let’s put it that way.

And I’ve spent the last two years trying to simplify it so that I, I geek out on the science, but I also lose everybody on the science also.

Host: No, it’s exciting.

I guess what’s going through my mind and you kind of just said it, 10, 15 brands.

I mean, it seems like the reality is the bigger, getting bigger.

Is that what, you know, I mean, the resources needed to do these things?

You know, you get some pooling, you know, it’s,

Brian Johnson: I think, yes, there’s some, there’s some acquisition, there’s some consolidation of resources.

I know that there’s a lot of companies and agencies that are implementing automation.

And unfortunately what that means is the lower end staff, they get sacrificed in the process of that automation, it’s, you know, unfortunately that’s just one of those things where a company has to, has to justify it or to, you know, consider that on their own, you know.

Do we automate and survive under, under the new competition?

I mean, you look at when, like a lot of these image, you know, the AI image generators came out and a lot of these agencies that were, you know, like, oh yeah, we’ll redo all your photography, you know, photography and video and, and copywriting for your product listings.

And you know, they’re charging, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5,000 more, you know, dollars.

And all of a sudden the price just drops out because so many other agencies are like, yeah, we’ll do it for 400 bucks, like, man.

And they had, they were forced to bring their price down.

So a third of their income just from their design shop just disappeared, you know.

And so that’s, it’s not like we’re, it really, it forces, I think, everybody to be prepared to pivot, you know, and to explore and what else can I do?

What are my superpowers that I can lean into maybe in a different way, you know?

Host: Yeah, I’m having that same talk in our team and yeah, I agree on the people, people, the value of a high skilled person is going to go up and the value of a low skilled is going to go to maybe zero, like you said.

Is it also the same for small brand, big brand?

Brian Johnson: I mean, I would say that the bigger brands still have more traditional teams, but, you know, if you’re talking about like week to week optimization, I would say that it kind of depends on how much that they’re doing in house.

I think where a company should be leveraging is not necessarily cutting headcount, but getting that headcount, getting the people on your team up to speed on multiplying their output and taking on more than what they used to be able to do.

And the way that, this was kind of what I was speaking recently in Las Vegas for the Alibaba.com co-create event.

And what I was talking about, originally I was going in and talking about, you know, where you can take, you know, your, you know, AI and, you know, essentially what, what, what to look forward to, you know, or, or what to avoid, you know, like, in other words, it’s coming for you.

It’s not coming for you as an individual, but from a, from a business standpoint, you’ve got to embrace a certain amount of AI because everybody else is, and that’s becoming the new standard.

Right.

And so, but then I was in, in speaking the first day or day and a half that I was speaking with the attendees, I realized like most people at the conference were not that savvy as far as they were not that far advanced in their business to consider it.

And they were kind of scared because there was a little bit of overwhelm of like, it’s changing so fast and I’ve gotten caught by that myself.

And then kind of the message that I shifted to was focus on yourself first.

If you have, you know, the first, probably one of the biggest things that I’ve tried to work on myself the past couple of years is really trying to focus more on where, where do I have my own, you know, where can I lean into my superpowers?

What am I very capable at and enjoy doing and turns out I’m pretty good at.

How do I get more hours of the day working on that and less wearing all the other multi, you know, multiple hats of a co-founder, right?

And so for, for anybody that is feeling like they can’t keep up with AI, yes, everybody’s in that same position.

There’s no person out there in the world who is fully aware of everything that’s going on with AI. That is no longer possible.

And so you kind of have to figure out, okay, what specific, what do I need to know about the technology?

What is changing?

What can I use today for me personally?

And just saying like, look, there’s some tasks that I do that consume a bunch of my hours in my week and I don’t like doing, I try to avoid them.

What tool might be available already that I can implement that just takes that off my plate or reduces it substantially?

If you get, you know, exceptionally buried by an influx of email, first of all, create a new email so nobody knows your email.

But two is there are tools in order to manage that that are AI that can at least create a filtering system for you, right?

Reduce the noise through filtering, reduce the noise by automating, getting some of the things off your plate so that you have a clear head to work on what your superpowers are.

Don’t try to take everything else on.

One of the biggest mistakes that I made in the last year was, in the time that we’ve been talking, five new AI tools have come out, right?

Trying to say like, oh, well, you know, I was using this one, but now there’s this new version or this new tool that just came out, I need to jump to that one.

I was hopping around saying like, oh, here’s the latest, latest, latest, latest.

I wasn’t committing to just, let me stick to one platform for, you know, at least a month, you know, and just focus on using that for at least a month and just trying to refine it for myself, not for my company, not for all my clients, none of that kind of stuff.

Just let me pick something, do the best I can, automate the noise and the superfluous tasks off of me so that I can get a more clear head and the time to work on my own superpowers.

My mental health is gradually improving.

I haven’t gotten there, but it is definitely a destination that I’m working on.

Host: It helps me.

I know like, yeah, it’s analysis paralysis, like, yeah, like especially Twitter, like, you know, like on the AI feed or whatever, or, you know, any platform, it seems there’s just always some new thing, new thing, and then you almost get frozen.

You don’t know what to do.

It’s almost like, you know, like starting selling on online or, you know, picking a product, but it’s even more extreme, but say, yeah, I’m just, yeah, I think we’re all getting to where we’re just pick something and just have to, have to hope that that’s the right one for now, at least.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

Most people don’t execute in the first place, you know, struggle with that, you know, it’s, it’s really easy to get the shiny object, you know, squirrel, you know, where it’s like, Ooh, that’s cool.

Let me go look at that.

I watched 40 videos about this different topic, you know, and then all of a sudden you’re like, how much time did I just blow watching how other people have done it, you know, and agreeing or disagreeing and saying, I haven’t quite found my right approach on this.

I’m like, hold on.

Had I just committed to something, not relied a hundred percent on somebody else’s advice that may have been, you know, a week old or a year old or whatever the case is, and just say like, okay, do I need notion or do I need something like, no, it’s like, like I’ve got sticky notes.

I’ve got, you know, notepad, like, like don’t overcomplicate it.

If you know, figure it’s, what are you comfortable, what do you actually execute on?

What do you actually get done and just use that for now and figure out what’s the worst task that I absolutely avoid.

It never gets done and it always causes me stress because it doesn’t get done.

And then somebody starts barking at me three weeks after it was due.

Like how do I get that off of my plate so that it’s out of my head?

That’s the, that’s probably the biggest wish that I would have for anybody.

How do you reduce the noise in your head?

Yeah.

Choosing to automate something doesn’t mean you need to hire out.

It’s just, there’s a certain amount of, you know, there there’s plenty of tools already out there that are available, you know, and probably have a low, you know, pretty low subscription costs, you know.

Host: Yeah.

Great.

Let’s, you know, bring it back Amazon.

So, you know, I, I get towards, you know, I think 10, 15, 10 minutes more, but rank, so you know, organic rank, and then I’m thinking of you as the PPC, right?

And everybody always says you still need a PPC, right?

So PPC is still important in organic rank.

I mean, that’s how I’ve always thought of Amazon.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

The ranking offsets the costs, the increasing costs of ads.

You still want to use the ads to drive univelocity.

You just be a lot more intentional and tactical about it.

Okay.

You know, try not to use it for keyword research, especially if you’re in the pet category or the baby category or some of these, you know, where you’re, you know, it’s 5, 10, 20 dollar cost per click.

You know, you’ve got to, you better be ranking organically because you won’t be able to afford the ads on that, you know.

But yeah, so it’s, I still, you know, I still try to keep abreast of what’s working now in PPC advertising just so that I know it for my own, because I’ve got my own products as well and like product partnerships.

So I always want to know, I don’t choose to do it hands-on anymore, but at the same time, I want to know what those tactics are that are, you know, that are working, that’ll move the needle.

True.

Host: Cool.

And then let’s chat about Summit, like what you got lined up for us, what you’re going to be sharing at the Summit and on the organic ranking with AI.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

I mean, so, I mean, obviously that’s, when it comes to, so we, so one of the things that we did develop, you know, through our research, we identified, you know, in making this attempt to reverse, you know, reverse engineer A9.

And I always, as soon as I say that, I always hear the voice in my head.

It’s like, well, if anybody tells you they’ve, you know, they solved A9, you know, then they’re full of it.

It’s like, yeah.

And generally I would say that’s true.

We only have probably about 80% of it figured out, right?

There’s another 20% that’s variable.

There’s other things that introduce more flavor to that, like Rufus and Cosmo and that kind of stuff.

And I could, you know, speak for another hour just on those two, but ultimately what I’m going to bring to Summit is I’m going to show, you know, go in and, you know, start kind of with an overview of what are the biggest ranking signals that you can send A9 and how do you measure those?

How do you optimize those?

How do you essentially take advantage of gaps in the marketplace, lean into your strengths, avoid, you know, your weaknesses as best you can?

How do you actually assess that and figure that out?

So I’m going to say it’s probably a little more workshop than it is, you know, like hands-on, like here’s where I want you to take this, then I’ll try not to make it a lecture.

It’s going to be more of like, okay, let’s do this together and let’s walk through this.

Cause I think especially in the more intimate settings, you know, like Summit, you know, it’s not the 10 person mastermind, but at the same time, it’s also not the, you know, a thousand person, you know, conference either.

So that is a fantastic sweet spot.

Everybody I always get the best learning out of that size of event that you have with Summit.

And everybody I talked to is like, yeah, that’s, that’s the most, that’s where I got the most action out of, out of that size of event because it’s the right mix of you get to network, you get more hands-on approaches, much easier to pull, you know, a speaker or somebody else who said, Hey, I’ve got this hack, or I’ve got this thing that works, or here’s what you should be doing.

Here’s your priority and pull them to a side and say, okay, can we go through that a little bit more together?

And then you’ll get a small group that’s working on that.

And that’s, that’s a beautiful, beautiful case.

I encourage anybody that hasn’t been to a sub-conference, in other words, one that is more, a lot more tactical, a lot more focused like Summit is, it is, it is, yeah, the size of it is, is exactly like anybody who has an experience that needs to, like if you’ve just gone to, you know, the big conferences in the Vegas and New York and, you know, London and all these kinds of things that like, like, you got to try this out, because it’s, it’ll make a world of difference.

It’s just a different vibe altogether.

Host: Yeah.

I mean, that’s, I happy to say that.

I mean, I, I feel the same.

I mean, I learned myself there.

I mean, we can make good connections and, you know, we, we, we, we like, we like the, you know, we’ve done it seven times.

So the size is good.

I just had dinner with a few that went last year, coming again this year, ready to, actually sometimes I see the attendees themselves share amazing strategies, we’re actually gonna work on more.

I don’t want to spoil too much, but we’re gonna, I also don’t know if it’s gonna be how technically possible, we’re gonna try some extra screens.

Yeah, have more engagement.

So there’s me like question walls, there’s gonna be like various.

I’m keeping it quiet because I want to make sure it’s, it’s also going to work, but we’re going to have some more engagements sections so that there’s more, even more powerful connecting happening.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

I’m a big fan of the, the what if, you know, wouldn’t it be cool if kind of question, you know, I can, I can innovate.

That’s one of my, my, my powers is I can, I can innovate, you know, I can ideate, I can innovate.

And sometimes, you know, the ideas come faster.

Well, the ideas always come faster than the execution, let’s be honest.

And so, yeah, I definitely feel that it’s like, like, like, I want to have this kind of experience because I think it’ll work.

But sometimes, you know, technology pushes back and says like, no, that is not that dynamic or that technology doesn’t actually work the way you think it does, you know?

So yeah, I commend you for, for striving for a better experience.

Host: That’s cool.

I love that.

Cool.

Well, thanks for sharing, Brian.

Is, is your, is the, you know, it’s in beta, I know you’ve been working on, we’ve been talking, we had a call about it earlier, where are you at now?

I mean, is there ways people can engage?

Of course, can’t wait to see it.

Just a bit over a month away now, about a week.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

I mean, so our beta is focused just on the amazon.com, so the Amazon US marketplace currently.

We just are this month, we’re, we’re transitioning our beta users over to our online app.

It was literally like the Google sheets prior to that.

And, and so, yeah, our users are definitely like, oh, thank God, like I’m done.

Like, I don’t want to see another Google sheet again.

And so we are in the process of transitioning out of beta, but there’s going to be, you know, it’s probably going to be a few months of like that transition.

And so our, our website is just, is DeepM.ai.

So it’s like deep marketplace or DeepM.ai.

Yeah.

And so, you know, there’s, there’s obviously a form that says like, hey, you know, give me a demo of this.

Host: Yeah, I see the request demo.

Yeah.

Brian Johnson: Yeah.

So that’s, that’s probably the easiest way in order to get hands on.

We don’t have a demonstration video on there in parts because of the, some of the proprietary things that we do and some of the patent filings that we’re, we’re going after and that kind of stuff.

We have to, we can’t be fully disclosure.

And as it turns out, you can’t use terms like competitive intelligence when you’re trying to be a service provider in the Amazon ecosphere, because Amazon comes down and says like, no, you can’t say competitive intelligence that suggests that you’re comparing competitors to yourself.

And we’re like, yeah, we are in great detail.

It’s like, no, you can’t say that, you know, you can say benchmark.

It’s like, okay, sure.

Okay.

Like, look, I’m, I’m looking to beat every competitor that I have for a search term.

So call it what you want.

Host: Awesome.

Well, this has been fun.

I can’t wait to catch up again in person.

And yeah, I mean, you know, like when people are excited, like Tommy, he’s been a regular at our summits, he’s, he’s from Finland, he’s based here in Chiang Mai, he’s already confirmed to come.

And he’s, he’s followed you for a while, I can’t wait to meet, you know, he’s been out here in Thailand for 10, 10 years has, that’s cool.

He’s got a factory here with his wife, Thai wife, and they sell, they sell a lot and he’s excited to meet you and many others I’ve been talking to.

So thanks again for sharing with us today and coming out.

Brian Johnson: Yeah, I look forward to coming back into, into Chiang Mai in November, looking forward to it.