Branding & Packaging Tactics for Your Ecommerce Brand with Kitty Lai

Michael MicheliniBusiness, Ecommerce, Manufacturing, Podcast0 Comments

In this episode of the Global From Asia podcast, our guest Kitty Lai shares her expertise in the world of ecommerce branding. Kitty discusses her journey in the ecommerce industry and highlights the differences between starting a brand for ecommerce versus traditional methods. She emphasizes the core considerations when starting a new ecommerce brand and provides valuable insights on common pitfalls and mistakes to avoid. Kitty also emphasizes the importance of packaging and shares tips and strategies for choosing the right packaging for products.

Don’t miss out on the opportunity to explore Kitty’s exceptional services and offerings, designed to propel your ecommerce business to new heights. Tune in now for an episode that promises to inspire and equip you with the tools to build a thriving brand.

Topics Covered in this Episode

  • Introduce Kitty Lai:

    How did you get started in the ecommerce world?

  • Differences in Starting a Brand for Ecommerce vs Traditional:

    Are there any differences between starting a brand for ecommerce compared to traditional methods? Or are they the same?

  • Positioning a New Brand:

    What are some core considerations when someone is looking to start a new ecommerce brand?

  • Common Pitfalls and Mistakes:

    When it comes to learning from mistakes, including case studies, what are some common bloopers you have seen sellers make when starting their brand?

  • Packaging Matters:

    I often talk about my dad’s statement, ‘You’re just paying for packaging,’ and it still makes me chuckle. But there is truth to that – packaging matters! What are some tips and strategies when deciding on packaging for your products?

  • Re-branding Later, Okay or Not?:

    Some say, should I start with minimal branding, get the product going, figure out my product line, and then come back to rebrand or upgrade my brand? Or should we strive to get it as ‘right as possible’ from the beginning?

  • Using a Case Study:

    Can we discuss an ecommerce brand? We can also examine Mike’s current case study, Excalibur Brothers, to gain insights and share some tips.

  • Working With Kitty:

    What are ways you can help listeners today? Can you explain your services and offerings? What are some ways to connect?

Thank you, Kitty, for sharing your expertise and invaluable insights on the Global From Asia podcast!

People / Companies / Resources Mentioned in this Episode

√ Kitty’s GFAVIP Page
√ Me Brand Design
√ Cross Border Summit
√ Visit our GFA partner – Mercury – for US banking solutons for your ecommerce businesss
√ Visit our GFA partner – Casia Cross Better Logistics – for your logistics needs

Episode Length 46:02

A big shoutout to the amazing Kitty for joining us on the Global From Asia podcast – your insights were absolutely mind-blowing! And to all you awesome listeners out there, thank you for tuning in and being a part of this awesome episode!

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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Episode 403 Global from Asia branding and Packaging. Let’s tune in. Welcome to the Global from Asia podcast, where the daunting process of running an international business is broken down into straight up actionable advice. And now your host, Michael Micheli. Thank you all for tuning to choosing to listen to or watch global inform

Today’s. Slash packaging and we’re talking [00:00:30] about branding and packaging. Kitty lie, great expert and very generous with her information and knowledge is we have this discussion about, you know, branding in general and then of course within e-commerce and packaging. And I take out some of my, my own brands packaging on the show if you’re watching, but we describe it for the audio listeners too.

Also, it’s just been exciting. My father-in-law just just left here in Chiang Mai back to China, and it’s cool enough [00:01:00] here into the summer, but lots happening after the show. If you’re interested, we’ll talk about some happening with the Cross Border Summit. Talk about some, some other experiences about packaging.

We’re doing some repackaging in the US so if you wanna hear that after the interview, let’s tune in to Kitty now. All right. We have Tommy, the sales manager at Cross Better Logistics. How are you, Tommy? Hi and I. We just got to meet here in Sheen, China. It’s great. Uh, they support the show at Global from Asia, and we also [00:01:30] use them ourself for many of our brands and e-commerce businesses.

And Tommy really cares. They always are. Uh, Try to help us save money. You know, not, you have some products you keep for us in China. You have some products you keep for us in the US warehouse, and, uh, I really appreciate that. And you’ll, you can talk to this seller, right? You can give them your advice. You work with many Chinese sellers a lot, right?

And uh, you can help. Um, help the sellers [00:02:00] understand more. Yeah. We are very professional for the shipment to USA and Canada. Also, we have warehouse in USA and Canada. We can help our factories, suppliers, sellers. For the shipment. Yes. Yeah. For the e-commerce. Yep. And you even keep stuff, uh, in China too. So sometimes if you have the limitations about sending too much.

Amazon, you can keep it here in China with, with, uh, cross Better, or you can send a course to the US [00:02:30] warehouse. They have many different options and they’re always trying their best to find, uh, find out what’s the best solution for you. So definitely talk to Tommy, talk to Cross Better, and thank you for your, uh, Support of the community.

Yes, we have good pricing and better service. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you all for choosing to listen to another Global From Asia podcast. We have a great one with Kitty Lai. We’ve been chatting a bit, preparing for the show, and you’re [00:03:00] in, is it in the uk, in London? Am I correct or?

I just moved from London, but I am in uk so I’ve moved back to down to my hometown in West Oex, only near the coast. Sunny Coast sounds nice. I’ve only, I’ve only been to London, Heathrow, and then I was in St. James Park. Right across. It was another life for me. It was when I worked on Wall Street. I went there for corporate training for a month.

But anyway, a little sidetrack. I know it’s, it’s, but it’s a really pleasure to [00:03:30] have you on. So you’re, you’re the founder at ME brand. You’re doing branding and helping with creating. Audi, you know, captivating audiences with branding and design services, and we’ve connected through common common friends and I’ve, you know, you’ve been on a lot of great podcasts and I respect, and today, you know, we’re gonna talk about pa I don’t know if it’s, I think it’s a great topic like packaging and for e-commerce.

And, but before we get into it, maybe a little bit of your, your background, Katie, for those that wanna know more. [00:04:00] Yeah, so I’ve trained as a graphic designer back in the day, but I always loved, I’ve always loved packaging and design, and it’s always what I’ve wanted to do. So I, I did a, a good degree in brand communication and I came out into London in the late nineties and joined a design agency and I loved it.

Uh, just designing logos, working on projects, branding, and that was a time when actually websites were just, Sort of coming aboard in in the uk [00:04:30] and so everyone was starting to have an email address. It’s just set crazy times and everyone was starting to design websites. So that’s my first sort of step into sort of the website arena.

But then a couple of a year down the line, a job came for Ted Baker as, and I joined as a junior designer. Then I worked my way up. So if you don’t know Ted Baker, it’s a global retail company. I’ve opened stores around Asia, US globally, and Europe as well. And I worked my way up as a graphic designer and then I managed a [00:05:00] team of eight designers by the time I left in after 10 years.

And I loved it. And I worked through everything from packaging design, the labeling, the working with printers, so I know the whole. Process actually from shipping, working in all the different departments in wholesale, the merchandise team, the, the marketing team was my main thing. Working within then and opening, you know, designing the, the window designs, the point of sale in stores, everything that had the label, well the, the brand baker one would come through me, so I would’ve to sign everything off from a, a zip pool to a [00:05:30] button that has the logo branding on top.

Cuz I had to sort of be the brand guardian for Te Baker and make sure that. The brand was correct. You know, often people have a branding and it, and then supplies change it slightly. But, but yeah. So my, my background is in Ted Baker, then I worked, then I worked for TK Maxx, t TJ Maxx in America actually.

Um, yeah, yeah, for them for 10 months actually. And then I had another, Job for another brand, a UK brand called Cath Ton. So that was a very female Hoka Dots and [00:06:00] Floral. It was a very vintage, nostalgic brand. And I worked my, I sort of expanded their packaging design team cause they needed a packaging designer.

So I rebranded everything as soon as I joined because nothing was consistent. And then after doing everything I’m doing for that full 15, 16 years, I was. Looking for something new actually. And then I was made redundant, had a child and. I joined, I joined this academy of this Mastermind for learning to sell fba.

Oh. [00:06:30] So I started, I started, I, I was learning something new and that was what I loved is knowing the process. And I thought, I know this, I can do this. So I actually launched a brand as well, a baby brand in 2017. But that’s really where my foot got into the door with the actual e-commerce, Amazon world as well, but also creating my company, a design and branding company as well, because people kept coming to me for designs and branding for, well, I, I kind of lost the love for it, but then I, I, I fell back in love [00:07:00] with it again.

So I’ve been doing that for the last, I guess, six, seven years now. So here I am and I’m helping other sellers. I like, I took a couple of notes. Brand Guardian. That’s the first time I heard. I think of, I think of like brand manager and maybe it’s a different Guardian. Maybe it’s a similar, is that the similar word?

I, I like Guardian, Alex. Yeah. I was a brand manager, yes. But the guardian is you, you look after everything, so [00:07:30] you, you, you breathe the culture of the brand as well. So anything you know, from how you would speak about the brand when you’re out seeing people, how it’s represented visually and just being the brand and representing the brand as well, and being the guardian is making sure.

That’s not right. You know, there’s a fake TED bag. I can tell that I, you know, I’m gonna do something about it. You know, you, you, you treasure it and you make sure that you got it, like, you know, like it’s your baby. Got it. I like that. I, I like that one first time for me to hear it. I, [00:08:00] so my question is, you know, you seems you have a lot of experience both in traditional retail as well as you said towards, you know, recently e-commerce.

For, you know, my first question is like starting a new brand, maybe, maybe even more generally, is the process similar or the same as for online e-commerce versus like traditional? Maybe it’s the same, maybe it’s not. I wonder if you think there’s any differences in starting a brand or positioning a brand from e e-commerce?

Yeah. Normal. Yeah. It’s absolutely the same. Is that [00:08:30] same in creating a brand? Yeah, it’s the same process. You’d have to, you know, well, if you’re positioning a brand, then the considerations you need to make is actually researching your competition. So actually, where would your brand sit in the market? Look at similarities with certain brands.

Are you a luxury brand? Are you mid range kind of, or are you a budget brand and you need to see where you’re gonna sit with these brands. And are you similar or what? How can you stand out for ’em as well? So positioning is fine. I’m, I’m, you, you might think I’m on par of [00:09:00] this brand and that brand. Yeah, that’s fine.

The price point’s about the same, but what makes you unique? You know, because you don’t wanna be the same as everybody else. You might have a similar product, but it’s about uniqueness, it’s about the feature and it’s how are you gonna stand out. So the brand really counts as well when you start designing the logo, the brand, the mission, the, the personality as well behind it.

Okay. No, I like that for sure. And. You know, we’re gonna talk about, at least I think I’d like to focus on packaging today cuz I feel like [00:09:30] I actually literally, I was almost afraid I’ll be back a little bit late today, but here in Thailand I mentioned and I went to meet a new factory for a new product line.

And you know, I said to the factory cuz their packaging wasn’t that great, even for retail stores in the US and in in Europe they manufacture oem. And I said they never sell to Amazon. So I said, you know, packaging really matters because it’s part of the picture of the product Yeah. In the listing. [00:10:00] So, you know, they do dried, dried flowers, dried, dried, dried grass, and things like that.

So, so they, they’re packaging more basic, like maybe, but I felt like maybe because it’s in stores, they just see the actual end product at the shelf and then they just take the product. Whereas on the e-commerce, I always like that main picture to try to have the package cuz I can stand out more in the picture versus just the product itself.

I try to use the, the product [00:10:30] packaging, but before we, you know, or maybe after. I mean when, when, what are some of the big mistakes people, people make? You know, it seems like you’ve worked with e-commerce sellers and traditional. People, they keep coming to you, so I’m sure. Are they coming to you at the beginning, in the middle, at the end, or, you know, what, what are, or does it Sometimes I tell people just to get started, right?

Like, you know, maybe they don’t have somebody they know like you or they don’t have, or should they do it right from the beginning? You know, maybe that’s a Right. [00:11:00] That’s yes. Yeah. So I have different, Types of clients. So there are ones that actually know nothing about branding and starting literally from scratch.

There are, like you said, people have already started at the middle. They already have a logo. They don’t have a brand though. And then there’s. And they wanna expand it and go further. So I would say, you know, the mistakes and pitfalls that a lot of owners do, brand owners do have is rushing. They rush it and create a brand.

So if you’re [00:11:30] starting from scratch, you thinking, ah, I’ve gotta get it to market, especially Amazon sellers. You think, oh, I need, I wanna be the first one to get it out there and let’s just rush it and let’s get it done. And then you kind of, after you’ve done and your cell and, and it’s been 18 months and it’s like, oh, actually I need to go back.

And then, I think it’s going back to creating, recreating a brand because you now want to expand the line and you wanna have new products in, and it’s like, oh, but that name doesn’t fit the product that I have. And often I have clients that have got a name that [00:12:00] fits really well, a particular product. And then they wanna go into a different category and it’s like, well, no, you can’t, you have to rebrand.

So rushing and creating a brand from scratch, you know, not doing it properly is, is a headache because you’re gonna sort of use more time, probably more resources. And probably more money as well. Doing it yourself is another thing. And doing, making all the decisions yourself without going to a professional and asking for advice.

Getting someone to actually do the logo, [00:12:30] because I know a lot of owners go to Canva or they go to maybe five, but sometimes they like to design it themselves and they think, oh, I’ll do it this. And I’ve had a, a recent client and I designed a. Beautiful logo for her. Quite a few options as well, so it confused her a little bit.

But that they were, all of them would work with the brand that I created for her cuz we created from, she had already had a brand, I’m rebranding for her. But then she liked these colors. Oh, I wanna do that. And it, but I’ve already set a color palette, and then she tried to switch [00:13:00] colors around and it’s like, you know, you, it works, but not, you know, I would’ve done it in a way that it would work best, but you know, when a owner gets involved too much, it’s like, then it’s picking apart what you’ve paid a professional to do.

So I wouldn’t recommend that I would trust the professionals to do to, to deliver what you paid for. And then I guess the other thing is that owners generally think that the logo is the brand and that’s it. And I think that’s all I need. And it’s not, and they get [00:13:30] stuck. It’s like, oh, how do I grow a brand?

You know? What is the you? You have to have a tone of voice and personality and create all these things about the brand. And the brand is the experience. It’s not a logo. So it’s all the other EL elements. How do you talk to your audience? What is the customer service like? That’s all part of your brand. So, you know, those are the things that.

You know, brand owners need to sort of really understand, it’s not just the logo, it’s not rushing, it’s not being the first to get into market, but it is about being unique and having a, a good experience for your [00:14:00] customers. Yeah, no, that’s all amazing. I mean, I got a couple, couple of notes on this. But I do agree, you know, working with the owner or the client or they have, you know, of course it’s their baby, right?

So, so, but they get too, too much micromanages, almost another way of saying or too involved or change after you’ve already kind of set the tone and the pattern and colors. But yeah, I would agree with that one for sure. But you know, I guess it’s there like, You know, [00:14:30] they’re very passionate about it. So I could see, but one point I got was the category changing.

So I, it’s new, little bit new to me. I mean, some people would like to try multiple categories or maybe they’re, especially if they’re new, they couldn’t, I guess the ways maybe the brand is built or, I guess it’s cuz really about, I guess, your target customer. Really about the user, right? Is that reason why it’s hard to change a category?[00:15:00]

Right? So I’ll give you an example. I won’t name the brand because you know she a client as well, but they created, I probably tell you the product, actually, it was an insulin pen. So they created something with their logo and it worked perfectly for that particular product. And then she wanted to expand into.

Tote bags and then lunch bags and other things, but that name and that brand sheet, well, that logo she created for that, that particular [00:15:30] product, work, work really well, but it doesn’t, when it goes across to bags or lunchboxes and other things. But it was a very sim It’s using the same materials, you know, and very similar things.

And it, it’s the same target audience. But the name just didn’t work. So it was like, how do we change that? And I said, well, I obviously gave her options. This is what we can do. We can make it more of a non-descript name. Using the original, but not changing the logo too much. So your, your, your existing customers still know who you are.

And it was [00:16:00] tweaking certain things, but it’s, it was really hard because she was hard to let, it was hard to let go of the existing things. So I said, there you can do two things, keep it, and then you’re not gonna. Do much with it and you won’t be able to expand and your customers will not get it. And if you try to target it, if you’re trying to target new customers, they just won’t get it so that you have to let go sometimes.

You can re re-shift what it currently is. And we, we did, we found a way of doing it. I, I found a [00:16:30] way of doing it. Nice. There was two options. You do it, but you know, my, my job is to problem solve. So if there’s something you really don’t wanna let go of, I can find a way around that or try to sort of change it so there’s minimal impact on the existing brand.

So yeah, that’s where we took it. So yeah, it, it’s a lot of times brands. Or brand owners want to do something and expand. It’s like, well, if it’s in the same category, it’s, it’s easier. But when you’re trying to sort of do different products, it is harder. Mm. [00:17:00] I I get it. I get it. I, I don’t wanna throw a trick question, but it’s, it got, it got me thinking.

It’s something I’ve asked. Can you change the brand on Amazon of a list current listing or even the whole brand? I wonder, I don’t know. I You can, well, it depends if you’re brand registered because Yeah, most, mostly we’re brand. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I always do brand registered. Personally, I think most, most listeners are brand registered.

Yeah, so you’ll need to re re-register a new [00:17:30] brand if you’re going to change the whole thing. Uh, with my client, she had already trademarked it as well, the logo. Yeah, so it’s like a bit tricky, but you know, there are ways around trademarking as well. You trademark the name as opposed to the logo, the, the logo mark.

Then you can each easily change if you, so if you trademark just the name, you can change your logo. The design of it, the visual of it. Anytime because you trademark the name, but Amazon works in a particular way. But if you [00:18:00] trademark the actual design, just the logo mark, it’s hard to change. You’ve got that for life, but when you’ve just got the name, you can change the way that looks anytime.

Oh, I see. So you’re, yeah. I usually do Wordmarks personally, most of the brands, yeah. That I’ve registered and, and do our wordmarks. I guess maybe it’s different, Dan, cuz if it’s the logo that’s changing, The words would stay the same, but I guess I wonder if the word that the word mark changed. Yeah, that would, so sometimes, [00:18:30] yeah, sometimes word mark might not have a little thing, you know, elements of a logo, and that will have to be a, a lo, you know, the actual logo mark as opposed to the word mark, where the word mark you, it’s just the words that you’re trademarking.

It’s not the actual visual. So you, you probably, you need to. Trademarks actually. One for the logo mark. One for the word mark. Then you’re sort of, you know, you’re covered for both. Got it. I usually don’t do logo work. I don’t usually do the art, I just [00:19:00] do the word and then, but I’ve always wondered maybe in Amazon if I change my work, my or I even wanted to change the listing to another brand.

Could I change the actual word, the storefronts on the listing? I think maybe it’s manually have to ask Amazon. I’ve never tried to do it personally. Yeah, I would probably ask Amazon, but I would probably say if you’ve really registered and brand registered particular brand, that you’re gonna have to do it all again.

But obviously you’re company. [00:19:30] You can still obviously list it for your company. So, but yeah, I would say yeah, that’s a completely different area to me. Yeah, a little different. A little different. I know it’s got off tangent there, so let’s, let’s dive into what I thought you know, would be fun to talk about is, is the packaging and, you know, I have a little.

I probably, maybe listeners heard me say this before, but I always remember when I was a kid with my father at the toy store or getting some kind of video game and or whatever, and he would [00:20:00] always kind of gimme some mark anti-marketing, cuz he’s like, these marketers, they just make this fancy packaging, you know?

And you’re paying for the packaging. Like you, you wanted, I would want the, like the branded, even food, right? Like the cereal. In the store and the, the, the, the, the, the famous brand has a nice package and the, the, but you know, the generic brand or the not famous brand would have like, kind of little bit like not as good of a package.

And he’s like, you’re paying for the packaging. You’re paying for the packaging. The [00:20:30] difference is the packaging. And I remember getting lectured about that a lot, but I don’t think it’s, I I, I, I don’t fully agree. I think there’s, you know, I’ve learned with manufacturing quality control procedures. And others, but I still do think packaging does stand out.

It does, you know, especially for gift items, which I, I try to focus on giftable. The, the, it’s not them, it’s for someone else. They want the package to look really nice. So maybe you could give us some tips and insights on, on your experiences [00:21:00] with, with packaging design and preparation. Yes. Yeah, so your dad is right packaging, like packaging to a certain extent, but it matters.

You, you are paying for what the brand wants to get. The brand wants to create a particular motion for you and you, it wants you to buy them. So it’s like, come here, buy this. You know, we’ve got pretty bow or whatever it is and it’s part of it, but. You have to remember, it’s, it’s, and talking to brand sellers, it’s function [00:21:30] is the most important thing for whatever your, your, you are packaging, so function and protection.

So you must protect the product. So if you’ve got a high, high purchase item, you wanna. Package it in a way that it’s nice and also it’s the feel as well. So there’s a few things. So function is most important. Then you need to protect the product. Then it’s about not wasting the materials that you’re using and the types of materials you’re using.

And can you reuse it? Can you repurpose the packaging as well? Sometimes you actually don’t even [00:22:00] need packaging. I sometimes tell clients you don’t need it, so don’t come. You come to me for packaging and I, I turn them away. You don’t need it. You just need this. And you know, I guess it’s budget as well, but, But you do need to dress it up depending on what your particular product is.

If it’s a bag of rubble, you probably don’t need to package it out so much. It’s just a bag of rubble and you know what you’re getting. Probably a decent logo on the front, printed on the bag. That is it. But if you are buying something high end like a mobile phone, you know, you want it to look.

Presentable, [00:22:30] having that experience, when you open the box, you know, you, you can think of so many high-end products, you know, luxury brands. Why do they give you the tissue paper, the ribbons, the nice, you know, nice embossed bags and, you know, it creates a feeling. It evokes that feeling in, in. The person that’s buying it, and if you are receiving a gift as well, it’s the whole brand experience.

And I, you know, I’ve talked about unboxing before with, you know, on a, a talk recently, and it’s about, wow, you open it, you get that feeling and it’s, [00:23:00] it’s depending on what product you have, but. Yes, you are paying for the packaging, but you know, it’s depending on your product. If it’s a low end product, low budget kind of item, you just need to think about how it’s gonna, how it’s gonna work for the customer.

Your target audience. Are they gonna literally just open it and then throw it away? If it’s a toothbrush, well you’re gonna put it straight into the bin, aren’t you? So there’s so much you can do, but at the end of the day, people do fall for packaging and, and they do buy brands. It’s about the look. And the [00:23:30] feel of it as well.

I do. I look at packaging and think, Hmm, and you look at the price. Is it price led or is it pack, you know, the what? Is it led? Is it the brand? So there’s different types of shoppers and it really depends on your brand. And yeah, I would say, Your dad is right, but also there’s other things that brand owners need to sort of weigh up.

It’s a whole, it’s a whole strategy that internally as a business, you need to think about what is it you actually wanna sell? What is it you want to give to the customer? What is, is it [00:24:00] about saving pennies? Is it about, you know, making profits? So then there are ways of doing it. You can just have a.

Beautiful brown carton box and a nice designed screen print logo or things that you can do. And I’ve seen plenty of brands do that, and it’s like, wow, they just saved little shed loads of money just using the outer carton. They created something about it, about the brand and you know, ha, have you heard the brand?

Who gives the crap? Toilet roll. Oh really? Toilet roll it’s called Who gives a crap, [00:24:30] but their whole tone of voice and the personality they write, they write the whole message around the box. They have bamboo tissue paper. They’re individually wrapped with beautiful designs on each toilet roll, but you, you can bulk by them like 48 rolls in a box, but it’s just a, it comes in a carton, but it’s got the branding around it.

And they’ve just used that. You know, there’s no other thing. Apart from obviously individually wrapped, they do look, they look nice, they’ve got a sticker on top and they’re all individually designed as well. But you know, you know you’re getting [00:25:00] bamboo, toilet paper and you’re getting a, a, you know, it is, I think it’s the whole feeling.

And you think, oh, they tell you to change the box into a spaceship for your kids, or they tell you you could be, you know, something else and they’re repurposing the box as well. So there are ways of doing things for brands, you know, when you are on a tight budget. So I like it. I can’t, I can’t really answer it.

I think I’ve answered it, but No, you a lot. I think from, I think maybe the answer for my dad is he’s the [00:25:30] low end. I don’t wanna offend my father, but he’s on the budget range customer. So you know, he would probably just want the marketing that says we have, you know, there’s even some brands that say we are no frills, right?

We don’t waste money on packaging, like even put it in their brand. They say, If you, we, we pass the savings to our customers. That’s why we have very basic packaging, no frills. It’s for the kind of the, that the, [00:26:00] I don’t wanna say it’s always men, but like, you know, kinda like those, the bare essential for the men, right?

We, we pass the savings to you, like we don’t spend a lot of money on this frivolous packaging and this other bit that you don’t need, and you give you that. So it’s almost part of the brand. Like maybe my dad would be the customer for the low price. Savings. You know, we, we pa you know, so that’s almost like a brand in itself.

Right? But then some customers or consumers, They like all that frills and the, you know, the, the [00:26:30] nice like bag, right? They go to this, the high end luxury store, like you said, that bag with the, the rope and the, the, the really shiny, shiny coat coated glo outer bag with the clothes inside and the, and the perfume smell like even Abercrombie and Fitch, they made me think, uh, in Hong Kong they closed and when they closed, my friend says, Yeah, I remember his Facebook mode post.

He’s like, good, I’m so happy they closed. It was [00:27:00] like a chemical lab. If I lit a match, it might explode cuz there was so much perfume or cologne. It smelled down the road. I remember. So it, but that’s part of the brand, right? The, the, the, that that smell. The smell. The look. I could, I could never, yeah, absolutely.

And I could never shop there. Cause obviously they cha they’ve changed it. But when they first came out, I could not see a thing. I’d go in and I couldn’t see anything cuz it was so, so dark. Oh, they had you fit. Stores at at some one point. I haven’t [00:27:30] been in a shop one of their stores in a long time, but I remember going in a couple like, and it’s so dark, it’s so dim.

I just couldn’t sit, see my way round and it was just horrible. Yeah, the big experience was, yeah, me anyway, so yeah. Yeah. But that, you know, that a brand can destroy their experience by just the lighting itself. And like you said, the perfume, that would kill me too, you know? Yeah. It was how, how easy is it to turn away business and customers by just that one thing?

Yeah. [00:28:00] Yeah, of course we focus more on e-commerce, but even e-commerce, like another thought was, you’re talking about the mobile phone. I, I don’t know, I think you can actually IP your, it’s called trade dress packaging, could be trademarked or registered as a. Strategic advantage over your competitors to block your competitors from doing that trade dress if you’re big enough, I believe.

And then I think the iPhone maybe even has a trademark on the way the, the noise it makes when you open it, like they strategically make it, or it kind of [00:28:30] pops when you pull the Yeah, open the box. It makes, I dunno if it makes the noise or you can feel the air, it feel tight. Right. And you’re. It kind of like it’s part, I think part of the brand or the design or the experience in that actual way.

They open the box of the first time. Yeah. But yeah, all of this is part of it. And how about inserts? Inserts? What’s your thought about inserts or, you know, communicate with the [00:29:00] customer? Yeah. Well for in, in the actual product packaging or just, just for Amazon or, you know, I mean, I know summers I don’t maybe, I mean, of course Amazon, I still do inserts.

Full disclosure, some people are scared to do inserts cuz they’re scared to get banned on Amazon. I think you get trouble with Amazon if you ask for reviews or especially five star reviews. But I think there’s no, I personally put warranty cards and v i p cards and like thank you cards, sometimes multiples in the package.[00:29:30]

And I think that’s right. I mean, you know, with that, definitely don’t do the ask for the five star reviews and you know, you know that you, that that’s, you know, against the t os. So yeah, the things that you do is the warranty, the guarantee, and the definitely incent incentivizing them like a v I p, you know, collect points or whatever it is, or get something in return next time, but not ask for reviews.

But you know, it’s, Trying to keep them as customers or repeat customers as [00:30:00] well. Like, you know, you could have something, we’ve got something coming up soon. We’ve got a new product launching soon. That could be something that you put in there and then they’re like, oh, but you might need to give your email address and wait first, you know, to sign up for, you know, for the launch.

So there’s a certain things you can sort of do, I think. But yeah, inserts, there’s no, there’s nothing wrong with inserts. And sometimes it might be instructional in inserts, you know, go to the website. To look at the video because you can’t do it physically. Where do they go? Go to the website, have a look at [00:30:30] this, how, how to use this product.

So yeah, you, you definitely, you know, if the product warrants a, you know, an insert, then I would say yes, do it. Great, great. And maybe we can squeeze in or get close to time, but maybe talk about some cases. You know, I have some, I, I’m, you know, I know I’m always nervous. Some people are nervous to talk about it, but I talk about some of my brands publicly or if.

Do you wanna go through one one of mine or, or Yeah. How do you like to do? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I’d love to see, [00:31:00] see some of your products. Yeah. So some people know about Excalibur Brothers, you know, we talk about it a little bit on the show, so we, this is actually, just so you know, it’s audio and video.

This show was of audio for many years before video podcasts we’re cool. But, uh, so they might not be able to see it, but I’m showing it for those watching. And so this is Albert Brothers. Actually, I have a really great partner, Luciano, that helped a lot with the, the design. But yeah, you can see it’s got this, all of them have this sleeve, so it slides off.

Yeah. [00:31:30] And then it has this embossed logo on the box. Yeah. And then on the back, of course, some customer service info. And then in the box, This is a sample I’ve been carrying around with me. Well, it’s a little beat up now, but inside we have a, you know, a little insert. It’s like a letter. And then a little actually extra polishing cloth that we didn’t mention, just so that we give ’em a little extra.

And then we have the, the set, which is a flask, men’s flask with a genuine [00:32:00] leather logo here and then shot glasses and a funnel to refill it easily. And that’s one of our core products. It’s a great gift. People make it that way. But yeah, it was a lot of customization on this. It was really painful.

Actually. It’s made in China, but yeah, this is. This is the design, and you know, Luciano says it was made with a castle. The brown on the outside is the castle and the inside is the red carpet. Right. Okay. Yeah. And then it has, welcome to your kingdom is our slogan. [00:32:30] I like it. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I don’t know, I mean, I, I don’t know if you wanna give us some feedback or ideas or.

Yeah, I think the presentation is good. It’s present. And the other thing I think is, is would the person that receives it after, are they gonna keep the box? Is it, you know, would they keep the box? And you, it’s so beautiful. And obviously I can see that you’ve got, it looks like it’s got mat lamination on, obviously you’ve got gold four O’ block on the, in a lid.

And then is that velvet, is that, [00:33:00] that’s just a, uh, no, it’s a pla it’s a, it’s a cardboard. Yeah. Cardboard inside. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, this is pretty expensive. It’s like a foam to a fit. Yeah. Significant cost is the packaging. Yeah, so the foam is expensive. There’s other way, you know, if there’s other ways you can use to package it, you can do, but it is nice the presentation because it’s giftable and that looks like it’s a giftable item that you would buy and to, to give something.

So [00:33:30] I wouldn’t say you should sort of change it anything to it. It’s the sleeve’s nice because if you’ve got everything on the actual box or stickers, it doesn’t, it’s not as appealing. And you, some people might wanna keep the box and put other things in. They’ll take the insert out and put things in. I always do.

Like at a nice box. Um, the actual, yeah, so it could be like, you might have a message underneath. They take that thing out, out the insert. So the inner tray and underneath it might have a little message, keep me [00:34:00] for keepsake or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. Just cool. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you can put other little trinket things, guys like to put things in there, you know, you might find it’s great to hold other things, but yeah, I think presentation is is good.

You’ve got all the information on your actual sleeve. I can’t actually see what, I couldn’t read what it was on the actual sleeve and stuff, but, This is the back. So it has, or I could read it. Yes. It basically says, need help. Our, our Excel brothers Royal Squires are standing by to serve you at your pleasure.

They are [00:34:30] on honor bound at ensuring your complete and utter satisfaction. Our email, excel, and then our logo and our domain, and then of course the year and you know, made in China. And then the front has like a. A picture of it in, ok. So I have one thing I’ve Ed, which one’s your logo?

Can you show me the actual logo? This, that, that one in the shield. In the crest and the shield. So on your front of that, that, that, that sleeve you’re holding? [00:35:00] Yeah. On the, yeah, I mean the, oh yeah. That is the actual logo. Yeah. So on your sleeve, you’ve got a different logo on the front that says A scalp of brothers.

It, yeah, that’s, and that’s. Yeah, so the on the front, so yeah, I can see that on the front. Turn around, you can see you have a SC of my brothers at the top. That’s not your go. It’s a cursive version. So what we do is just like another variation. So we actually put it on the bottom and [00:35:30] cursive. Right. Okay.

And it was established 2003 as the website was started then, so we. We, we have like a cursive version cuz we wanna look like medieval and older. And so I would say obviously we’re here to discuss, you know. Sure. So in my thoughts would be, you’ve got the logo on the, on your box, that’s gold foiled. So the shield is on the left.

You’ve got acal rises on the right, on the back. It’s the shield on the top. And then you’ve got the. [00:36:00] The this caliber on that. So there’s two variations already. So you’ve got the primary logo, secondary logo, then you’ve got a third logo, which is the cursive. Yeah. So you’ve gotta think what are, what are people, look which logo is it?

You know, I know you, you want to create the two, but I’m just, I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Right. No, I appreciate that. There’s not a wrong or right answer, but as a brand branding person, I would say, You can have a horizontal logo and a, and a and a tall logo. So two [00:36:30] logos, and then you’ve got this additional one, which is more decorative.

And you can do that. It’s not like you can’t, I’m not saying, but it’s, it’s just jars when you’ve got the on the sleeve and you wanna think, and it’s like two different things and it’s like, which one is it? And as a customer, you might not be, you think, well, what’s going, you know, I don’t understand it. You know, which one is their logo?

You want the logo to stick in someone’s mind. It’s the shield that would stick in my mind, I would recollection. And then I think, oh, cause that’s why actual, even on like the [00:37:00] polishing cloth, they have the shield. Shield, yes. Yeah. So that, yeah. And then on the actual, on the flask, it’s the shield. Yeah. And I think on product inside it’s actually okay on the underside and stuff, but I would try to, whatever you do is try to keep to your.

Original logo, the, the, the primary or the secondary logo, whereas the, I don’t, you know, it’s, there’s no wrong or right answer to it, but that’s just me thinking, well, this is, the sleeve has the, it’s almost like a logo [00:37:30] twice. You see how it’s like here? Yeah. So for me that would be a little bit, yeah. Not, not so right for me.

Yeah. But it’s not, it’s not bad. I mean, that, that’s just me, my fault. So, yeah, you could. Change it, you know, just change the sleeve at some point. But, you know, I don’t, people might not even notice, but maybe cuz it’s me, I notice everything. So, but it’s the, it’s the shift that will catch my attention. And I will remember that if I just saw the cursive on [00:38:00] a.

Another product, not with the lo, not with the other, sort of the main logo, I think, oh, I’m not sure. That looks like a, a knockoff or a fake or something. You know, people might not know, but you know, if it’s set in your brand guidelines, this is what we do on everything as well. Product will have that cursive text on a lot of the product.

They, you know, that your, your, your loyal customers will get that and understand that, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t because you know other brands like AB. Acro fiction always say, but you know, they have their slogans in like a collegiate [00:38:30] kind of design. They have like script writing, you know, so it’s not saying it’s wrong, but when you’ve got two logos sitting next to each other, you’ve got your main, and then you’ve got on the sleeve, I would say think about.

Is it necessary or where could you put that? Makes sense. I like it. I like it. Thank, thank you. I hope others, I think, you know, that’s why I wanted, I guess I get a little free consultation help too, but I hope it also helps the viewers and listeners get some ideas too. I think, you know, I think maybe I’ll [00:39:00] summarize it.

What you just said is sometimes us as the owner, brand owner, we over brandand cuz we want people to know our brand. But that’s why, if you notice on the physical product, we didn’t put our lo, we only put the shield because we know customers we’re not Nike or lv, you know? So we know customers probably don’t wanna show people like too much text or too much of our brand we want.

But yeah, on the package, maybe we did, we go a little bit excessive, but you know, packaging is. They might not, you know, [00:39:30] keep it. Of course they hope they do, cuz it’s, this is a, you know, considerable percent of the cost of the product. And, uh, yeah. And another point is that, yeah, like you said, you know, it is getting the customer to recognize the logo.

You, you know, obviously your brand is still, it is not Nike or, or Rebo or whatever. You don’t recognize the, you know, the actual, but it’s important that your product does have. Your brand name on there, and you have got that on the bottom of the flask. So it’s, it’s important that it is on there. So they do know if someone, if you, you know, whoever’s got the flask, they’re drinking from it, or you are using [00:40:00] it, oh, that’s really nice.

And then it’s just got the shield on, is that, who is that? And you know, you do need to have your brand somewhere. So you have got that on there. So that’s fine. Yeah. So that perfect. Yeah. Yeah. It was part of our strategy was we didn’t want to sh we wanted to show it of course, but not like too, what’s the word?

You know, too blatant, too, too obvious. I like what you’ve got on your product. It’s absolutely, it’s nice. It’s nice what? You’ve got it. And I like that. Yeah. [00:40:30] Oh, thanks Katie. Alright, so, you know, we’re getting, yeah, this has been a fascinating conversation. Again, thank you for your time. You know, I’ve learned a few different things and I’m sure listeners did too.

So, for, you know, what’s some, of course there’s me, brand I, um, it’s a really nice site. You can learn more about your services and, and reach out to you and your team. Do you wanna share some more things that maybe people can get some help with or work with you on? Yeah, so I work [00:41:00] with a full brand identity, so, but I work with, I do brand identity so I can create whole.

Identity, if you’re starting from scratch, I can do that and actually set out guide brand guidelines for you. So I think it’s really important that a lot of brands have guidelines in terms of how they use the logo, what they use it for, and, and, and the tone of voice, the personality, the mission. What is your vision for the brand?

So I dissect that for a, for brand owners, I create logo designs. I can just do the brand guidelines if you don’t have them and actually see [00:41:30] what you haven’t. Haven and haven’t got, and then packaging design of course. So, you know, really depends on what stage you are on your project, but I can problem solve if you’re really stuck on that.

And finally, brand audit. So I do a brand design audit for your brand. So if you’ve got existing brand, you’re not sure where it’s going or you wanna expand or I’m not really, you know, I will look at you. Everything in your brand, your product, your logo, your website, your Instagram, your whatever it.

Wherever you’re gonna be seen, I will have a [00:42:00] look at how you and how you’re talking to your customers. So I will do a whole full brand audit for you as well. So you know, those are the main services I do with me brand. Great. This has been fun, Katie. It’s really nice to connect with you and, and share with people tuning in today.

We’ll link a course on our show notes and thanks again for coming on. Thank you. It’s been such a pleasure to talk to you, Mike. Great. And thank you to our sponsor, our returning sponsor, online bank. Well, it’s a real bank, but you can do it totally [00:42:30] online for us. Our Blimp program participants are going through this as well.

Thank you Mercury, Travis. It’s great there. Been on our show, it’s been in our events. We’re gonna have another event where we will have them attending as well. And if you want to get a little bonus for you and us, if you sign up and do some special circumstances, you can go to global

Also have a video tutorial that we use even for the Blimp people. Use the same exact video to learn how to use it. Hope you can check it out totally free. Why not? [00:43:00] It’s you there. Thank you for listening or watching this. Show. Thank you Kitty, for sharing so openly I learned a few new things and I hope you did too.

We’re also gonna be talking about now, you know, you saw some of the packaging we’re doing. We had to recall some items that got what I call as a kiss of death. Some items got a one started off the bat. I don’t know, not even a review, a rating, somebody you know, of course you think it might be competitor, but you can never really know.

So we pulled it out. We’re [00:43:30] repackaging, but realizing in the US we can’t get as much nice options of packaging and stickers. So for Acal Brothers, what we have to do, just do this normal boring F N S K U. Label, but we’re trying to put some of our logo on it and see if our, our three pl there can help us fix that.

So he says it looks like it will work with our logo and naming on the sticker of the barcode just so it has as much branding as possible. It’s kind of my tip to you, although, you know, kid say don’t overdo it. [00:44:00] Maybe it is a little bit overdone. I still gotta talk to Luciano, check out this show, Luciano.

But I, you know, I think the, you know, you know what I’m thinking about Amazon, we’re going multiple channels now. We’re going into, we just got open to Walmart. And the beautiful thing is, you know, our packaging, our branding can be used on any channel. It’s not like an Amazon specific brand. And when you get this stuff going, it’s scalable, you know, it can scale everywhere.

So those are some other, my little tips [00:44:30] and experiences and some of the blood, sweat, and tears we’re dealing with here on the ground as sellers ourselves. And of course we’ve got the cross-border summit coming up. It’s been really, really fun. We’re trying to get more local top sellers in CH in Thailand.

We have some coming from China, of course, from overseas around the world. So we’re working really hard on that, so it’s exciting. But yeah, I mean, not putting big pressure. We want quality people. We’re not, we’re not begging and we’re getting great feedback. Great people at signing up. Thank you for those.

You know, I, some new people [00:45:00] will be meeting, also some podcasts coming Also, we’re doing much more meetups here in Chang Mai. We’re doing Tuesday meetups now two to 4:00 PM and you can find from And we’re gonna start to have skills sharing and recording. It might be coming some more podcasts here.

There’s so many birds here. But anyway, thanks again for watching and listening. I’m trying to do this, you know, intro, outro, like outdoors a bit. We gotta get outdoors. We gotta breathe that fresh air and touch grass. Touch [00:45:30] grass. All right, have a great day everybody. And there are some really amazing updates and changes happening here in the business.

Hi. Want to say it. I like to say it, but I cannot say it, so stay tuned. As always. Take care. Bye-bye. To get more info about running an international business, please visit our from That’s from Also, be sure to subscribe to our iTunes feed. Thanks for tuning in.

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