Managing Chinese Staff, Partners Expectations As a Foreign Entrepreneur with Marcus Maher

If I hear more people asking me what is going to happen in the world now that Trump is US president, I’m going to go crazy! A ton of people in my space have had a huge surge of traffic from Americans looking to head over to other countries. Let’s all try to keep calm and see how it pans out.

If you are looking for places to go – April we are having our 2nd annual Cross Border Summit here in Shenzhen, China. Tons of you guys are asking me for the date -and we have decided to put it on Friday April 14 and Saturday April 15. Crossbordersummit.com and let’s make it happen.

Alright, now to bring back one of our popular guest – Marcus Maher – an Australian super entrepreneur who has been in China for decades and always has a ton of experience. He was also on episode 55 on Entrepreneur tips in China, Today he shares some perspectives on how he has managed Chinese business people’s expectations, from investors to staff to partners. This is show 149 – so you can get the show notes – so now let’s tune in.

Thanks Marcus for coming back on the show – you were with us on episode 55 talking about boots on the ground China business and a lot of people really enjoyed it, you were a top hit.

Care to re-introduce yourself to our listeners who missed out on that amazing interview last time Marcus?

So today we have another intriguing topic – managing Chinese staff as a foreigner. How to manage Chinese business partners, investors, and overall business people relations. You are a great person for this topic, as you have done so many ventures in china I have lost count – many restaurants, but also many serviced based businesses like investing overseas and immigration services and some technology projects – let’s start with the mindset

√ Legal Representative
√ Labor Bureau
√ VICE – wfoe, jv, rep office
√ Marshall Taplits
√ Marcus on a previous episode, 55
√ 3 important parts – legal rep, accounting, employee contract

Thanks Marcus for sharing. Alright everyone – Cross Border Summit – April 14 to 15 2017 -wow, can you believe we are almost in a new year – and I’m talking about an event in April. So let’s make the most of what is left in the year 2016.

The world is getting exciting in 2016 with Brexit and Trump – as business owners, let’s keep an open mind and keep learning. Cheers.

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Introduction: Welcome to the Global from Asia podcast, where the daunting process of running an international business in Hong Kong is broken down into straight up actionable advice and now your host, Michael Michelini!

Michael Michelini: Global from Asia episode 149. If I hear more questions about what’s going to happen in the world now that Trump is the US president, I’m gonna go insane!

Michael Michelini: A lot of people in the space of global business and expats and citizenship have gotten huge spike in traffic. I know a lot of Americans are looking for options list, just stay calm and see what happens.

Michael Michelini: But, if you’re look for a places and uh April’s not too far away, we have picked our second annual cross border summit dates for Shenzhen, China and a lot of you guys have been excited about it and ask me the dates to confirm your schedules. It’s going to be Friday April 14th and Saturday April 15th.

Michael Michelini: Crossbordersummit.com let’s make it happen!

Michael Michelini: Okay! Now, let’s bring back one of our most popular guest, Marcus Maher. He is an Australian super entrepreneur who has been in China for decades and always sharing tons of experience and he was on with us back in episode 55 globalfromasia.com/episode55.

Michael Michelini: And that is when is where he kinda share his boots on the ground stories of entrepreneurship in China which was really really cool.

Michael Michelini: And today he’s here to share his perspective on how he has manage Chinese business people’s expectations lists call it. From dealing with investors in China to staff, to partners so this is show 149 and you can get the show notes at globalfromasia.com/episode149. So let’s tune in!

Michael Michelini: Alright! Thank you everybody for tuning at Global from Asia podcast. We have with us one of our favorite guests, Marcus.

Michael Michelini: So you’re back with us in episode 55 which was quite while ago and thank you again for coming on.

Marcus Maher: Thanks, Michael! Thanks for having me back. It’s always a pleasure to be here and I love the interesting subjects you came up with.

Michael Michelini: I’ve tried my best. We’ve been preparing a little bit beforehand and you have notes and this is gonna be a huge topic that will be almost probably impossible to cover in any depths too much but I know you’re going to give us some great insights. So I’m really excited for this interview today.

Michael Michelini: But before we get started, I know you’re a great entrepreneur and have many adventures. You want to give us a quick introduction for those who’ve missed your first show?

Marcus Maher: Ah yes, so I’ve got quite a few businesses in China and Hong Kong. I established all sorts of companies from IT to restaurants to importing and whole selling to gym in multiple different countries.

Michael Michelini: Yeah. He’s being modest so he’s got a lot of..it’s great that we got him in the show again and this topic is really important and critical one and we were saying before, it’s something you can’t really find in a book or anywhere so it’s gonna be a very popular show so I try to put the title “Managing Chinese Staff” or maybe we say “People as a Foreigner” and I know you have a lot. You’ve been uh feelin about this show so um, what do you want to say so far?

Marcus Maher: Um, I think the first step is we have to analyze ourselves and we have to basically look at ourselves and work out what kind of, how we rate as far as a manager people goes. Let’s pretend we’re from America. How do we rate ourselves managing the relationship we have with our spouse? Let’s pretend our wife. Probably 6,7 out of 10 I’m sure wife’s thinking 6 out of 10 not 7 out of 10. She was gonna rank us.

Marcus Maher: What about our kids? Our relationship with our kids, how well do we manage them? Sure, kids think there’s some room for improvement and to the kids handing out an 8 too easily an 8 out of 10.

Marcus Maher: Well so we’ve got to look and analyze how we, our relationship goes with our, let’s pretend we’re a business owner with our own staff in America. How do our staff rate our performance? They’re probably not handing out 9’s very easily probably 7’s at best.

Marcus Maher: Um, let’s pretend we’re highly paid employee working for an employer and I think about sending someone over to China. How do we, as our relationship with the rest of the staff and management. It’s probably ok if you’re thinking about sending us over to China but is it a 10? Or a 9?

Marcus Maher: Probably not probably close to an 8 so I think the first reality is we have to understand is that we’re probably average at best at managing people. Maybe 7 out of 10, 7 ½ out of 10. So, we have to understand this reality before we even think on embarking on the most difficult task of all.

Marcus Maher: Coming over to China, one of the most difficult business environment in the world and managing Chinese people.

Michael Michelini: It is, it is true and I’ve also managed quite a few Chinese in my time here and I guess I have to be honest, I never really manage people in my home country in the US, so I really don’t have management experience when I came here.

Michael Michelini: But some people, I think even my dad would tell me that it might be good to not have experience in a different place because you’re kind a like clean slate or do you think? I guess? But it might be good to have some experience? Can you really transplant? Do you think the Western management experience is into China?

Marcus Maher: Well, I think you’re actually lucky in not having any experience for coming here because it’s on you and your starting point is the point from learning.

Marcus Maher: You essentially know that you know nothing because you haven’t done it before. Um or would be much harder actually if you’ve done it in America and having lots of perceptions and then coming over here and actually maybe not even knowing the most of them are wrong before you start.

Michael Michelini: True. So, I think one of the first things, some of this starting a new venture in over here in mainland China is you know, you read the books and I think a lot of times they usually say find a local partner. So, it’s somebody fresh, fresh off the boat or the plane, starting some new business. Do they go to this networking parties and find a partner? or should they go about on their own? Or? I know this is a tough one but I love any of your insights.

Marcus Maher: I think the starting point is, we’ve already established that by average, maybe a bit better than average at reading people knowing people managing people. And now I think about coming over to China, one of the most complicated business environments in the world and meeting a Chinese person lots of Chinese people who are some people say inscrutable, not easy to read and we are going to attempt to read one of these people and decide that, that person is our perfect business partner we both put lots of money in, invest lots of money and just hope that it’s all gonna work out well.

Marcus Maher: I think it’s like a really high chance of failure. Uh my favorite saying to many people when I meet them and when I think about coming to China is “The majority of what they believe to be true is actually the opposite.” It’s not true. Whatever they believe to be true the opposite is more likely to be true. So, you coming into China and you’re thinking about, think you can magically choose the right business partner.

Marcus Maher: Actually, the truth is, there’s a probably a high 90% chance you’ve chosen the wrong person or you’re going to choose the wrong person because you don’t know anything about China or the Chinese people.

Marcus Maher: It’s pretty much guaranteed that you’re going to choose the wrong person. So, at the start it’s not the time to be choosing your partner.

Michael Michelini: True and then, so yeah, I usually also tell people don’t register, you know. People think they have to register a company right away and join venture woofey! All these different things.

Michael Michelini: But I think people has to take their time to research to market in China. Fill things out, meet the right people. Try to get some feedback on your product or service. Yeah seems like, what you would also.

Marcus Maher: Yeah, absolutely! Realistically, you’re not going to magically find the perfect business partner. Day 1, no this is not happening.

Marcus Maher: So, the first few months in China, you really got to be doing research. You’ve got to be determining which city is the best city to set up in. Is it Beijing, is it Shanghai, is it Shenzhen, is it Guangzhou or is it another city for a specific reason. Is it Dongguan for manufacturing reasons?

Marcus Maher: So, you’ve really got to spend time choosing your city first. Then you’ve got to decide what kind of company are you gonna be setting up and you really need to speak to a lot of different people and you need to travel to these different cities rather than attempting to find the business partner that’s gonna save the day.

Marcus Maher: I think a better go would be to identify good mentors. Smart people that have been there, have been successful, that made money and attempting to establish your relationship with them and maybe getting them to be a, to give you insight. Because when you’re running a company, that’s truly what you need. You need someone to tell you “do this”, “don’t do that”, “that’s a smart idea”, “that’s a terrible idea”.

Marcus Maher: So, identifying good mentors is probably a very very good thing and they don’t even have to be in the same industry so much of what China or doing business in China is about is understanding China.

Marcus Maher: A lot of entrepreneurs that are over here in China doing multiple different industries. So, the art is actually understanding China as suppose to a specific industry.

Michael Michelini: Great! And yes, so mentors are definitely great and hopefully they can find them as their on the ground in China at these maybe networking events and doing their research and on the ground in their day to day.

Michael Michelini: I know this is a, I just want to make a pretty complex question here but or very vast questions.

Michael Michelini: So, let’s maybe say we found who we think is the right partner maybe 3 or 6 months later then we’re managing, getting operations going, hiring managing staff. A lot has I think people say like, that’s what the partner, that’s partners for. The operations, like the logistics, the China business side like you know let the foreigner, westerner worry about the sales or marketing or what they know.

Michael Michelini: Well, is that the case you think or should the foreigner also still kinda stay involve with the staff and then management of the operations in China?

Marcus Maher: Well, you’ve a great question. The first step is that you’re going to have to establish your company. Most companies in China whether it’s a foreign representative office or there’s a feist foreign investor in China enterprise or a woofy harlion for an enterprise, all of those require someone to be the legal representative. So, this is a starting point.

Marcus Maher: What does legal representative mean? That means if anything goes wrong, it’s your fault and you will end up in jail. Alternately, you have total power. It’s your company! You run it. You have final say. You are essentially a dictator.

Marcus Maher: Um this is to me exist because China needs people. The whole limited liability company idea that we use in the west it wouldn’t work over here.
Marcus Maher: They need people to be responsible for their actions. So, it’s actually legal requirements. So, the first question, is it going to be you? Or is it going to be the Chinese business partner?

Michael Michelini: So, I’m a legal rep and my company here some people says it’s really dangerous to do that or I’ve heard people say even there’s services you can pay like on a gray market for a lot of people to be your legal rep then don’t be legal rep but I know like he says it also gives you like a lot of power. Like great responsibility comes great power.

Michael Michelini: So, you do have this power, I don’t know. Do you want to make it, stab it suggesting who should be the legal rep?

Marcus Maher: Yes, you must be the legal representative. There’s no point on coming over here, setting up a company and having someone else be the legal representative.

Marcus Maher: Yes, ok you’ve gotten rid bit of the liability but what are you afraid of?

Marcus Maher: Don’t do anything wrong. Don’t rob banks. As long as you’re not breaking the law in an extensive way there shouldn’t be an issue. The key point is you must be in control of your company. So, the first step is you have to be the legal representative of your company.

Marcus Maher: Second step, the accounting side of it. Doesn’t really matter if you’re good with accountancy, you must learn, you must master. Every single penny that goes in and out of the company, you must sign off on. If someone else is running the account, you’re gonna wake one day with really really bad news and oh wait up and your legal representative is liable for all that.

Marcus Maher: So, you must be legal representative and you must sign for every penny in and out. So, the first issue is shouldn’t you be the legal representative? Yes, you must be. Secondly, you must have some sort of control over the financial department and accounts in that every penny in and out you must sign off on. You must be aware of every penny in and out. You must have every penny in and out would be register to your company bank accounts that can be registered to your phone. You can actually have a record of every penny in and out and that’s really really important.

Marcus Maher: Another one is the relationship you have with your employees. You have to sign the contract with them. You want them loyal to you not to anybody else. Now, some people don’t bother to much with employee contract, some do it in halfhearted way, this is so important!

Marcus Maher: You get it wrong, you end up in the labor bureau and that’s not a fun process. So maybe, one of the smartest strategy is, wherever you’re going to do your business there actually is a little labor bureau offers where an employee would go and complain because they have been had done by their employee. So my suggestion, actually go there talk to the lawyers who are paid by the government to be there and ask one of them or retain the services of their law firm to actually help you do your contract in a proactive way.

Marcus Maher: Your goal is not to cheat the employees, your goal is to have a honest fair contract that protects their interest and your interests. And if it’s done by the people that are going to represent any employee who might be complaining about you poor performance, or since they’re saying that you cheated them, the fact that you actually gone to the labor bureau sourced your lawyer from there and helped to drawn your contract, it’s gonna make you look pretty good if it ever does end up in court.
Marcus Maher: And also, the fact that the labor code lawyers have drawn it up there probably less holes in it than any other contract. So, you don’t really want a normal lawyer for this labor contracts. You actually need someone that specializes in doing this because if they don’t specialize, they don’t know. And why not employ the people that would be coming after you if something goes wrong.

Michael Michelini: Yeah, I like that a lot! I’ve been kinda kicking a lot of template that I’ve used a lot and I’ve used. But of course, going to labor department, I haven’t yet been into one but I had phone calls but I haven’t seen one or are they in every district?

Marcus Maher: Yeah. Every single district, every single sub district have one. Um I assume that there’s a website and at least where they all are because when a Chinese employee’s unhappy there have to be a go to telephone number. But um there are in every district, yes.

Michael Michelini: Got it. So, when managing staff. I agree, I think we should basically have a relationship with us even if we have a local partner. They should know us and know that we’re involved in the business.

Michael Michelini: So, let’s assume we found the right partners and the right staff, you know how do you keep them happy I mean that’s the tricky thing anywhere in the world. It’s just like we open this conversation you know, managing and incentivizing and please any kinda tips you have there or?

Marcus Maher: Once again, the first step is to understand that our employees are not American or English or French or German they are Chinese. Their primary loyalty is to their family. Their mother, their father, and maybe a brother or a sister. That is their primary loyalty. They’ll never be more loyal to an employer than they would with their family.

Marcus Maher: As suppose to the west, in the west we are encourage to leave home as soon as possible. Um in China, parents and children are bound to each other forever. So, once again acknowledging that you’d never be able to get the staff more loyal to you than they’ll be with their family, that’s a good starting point as far as understanding their psychology and how to incentivize them.

Marcus Maher: So, Chinese person working in your company when dealing with their family, how do they make their family proud of them? And proud of their performance.

Marcus Maher: Well, Chinese New Year. They have to perform. What is performance mean? It’s not coming back with a bag of Christmas presents, it’s coming back with hongbaos. Red envelopes stuffed full of 100 RMB notes or whatever notes they stuffed in them.

Marcus Maher: This decides whether the child is a good child or not. The more money on those hongbaos the better the child is. So, understanding that, that time of the year, if you’re not putting if you’re not ensuring that your employee goes back and looks good in the eyes of their parents. Parents are gonna be saying “what’s going on here? You’re obviously working for a bad guy.” Everyone, all my neighbors are getting hongbaos, “where’s my hongbao? What’s going on?”.

Marcus Maher: So, you’ve really got to understand that then you’ve got a factor in a different Chinese holiday and that fact that hongbaos are given at multiple different times. You have to address all these issues. Your workers have to be giving little hongbaos to their parents, their family, their attended network during these times.

Marcus Maher: Otherwise, they will essentially not conspire against you but they just gonna point out reality from a Chinese context which is you’re a bad guy.

Michael Michelini: True. Yeah, I mean it’s always the family the culture pressures, right? It’s not the choice of the maybe that employee or that individual that family is first and it’s so so that I like that in Chinese the family name, the last name is first then their given name. Where’s you know the west we have Marcus you know and Mike first but in Asia it’s family first.

Michael Michelini: Um Investors which maybe is similar to maybe a business partner? Or you know a Chinese partner? I’ve had different taste of this. I know you’ve been in this a lot of with different ventures. How about this relationship uh management?

Marcus Maher: It’s also a very very hard one. The first question you’ve really got to ask your self is, why well you obviously need the money. You need additional funds because you’re searching out an investor.

Marcus Maher: The real goal is establishing from day 1 what you’re require of the investor. Some investors without like what I would do If did need funds for my business. I’d identify business partners that could contribute to the business.

Marcus Maher: So, that money is not really very useful. Try to identify smart money. Maybe it’s somebody that in that field and they could introduce customers to the business. Maybe it’s just a super super smart person who’s got a couple decades of experience in the country your about to do business in. And you’re taking some investments from them just to have their wisdom on board.

Marcus Maher: The fact, that they’ve got money in the company means they’ve got skin in the game. That would be giving you a good advice.

Marcus Maher: Essentially, you don’t want that money. You want smart money. And you’ve got to lay out your expectations of those investors clearly and concisely.

Marcus Maher: You don’t really want investors calling you up every couple of days asking “what’s going on?”, “how’s the company going?”. You don’t want investors micromanaging the business. So, that agreement you have with your investors is the start. It has to be quite clear. You have to help the manager’s expectations and the agreement will totally do that.

Marcus Maher: That will avoid disputes and arguments so that original contract is really quite important and they will be able to contribute. You don’t want dumb money, you want smart money.

Michael Michelini: Yes, that’s true. This is where I think the books and the stories always get fun is emergencies are one thing that kinda go wrong with managements maybe. Different cultural differences or management differences. Offense is made you know feelings hurt any ways to interest us or stories that we can learn from?

Marcus Maher: I think the business relationship with a Chinese person is really like establishing a new friendship. I mean a lot of people you’ve got to be partnering up with probably going to be male. So, if you’re a male most of the people you’re going to partnering up is male. Um really, it’s a male bonding session really, it’s um creating brotherhood, creating a new friend. The art of managing a Chinese business partner is they’ll want to turn you into a brother. Um you’ll eat together, drink together, you socialize together.

Marcus Maher: Essentially, you’re becoming part of their family and their becoming part of your family intertwining both families and you intertwining into their network and them intertwining into your network. That kind of ensures that there is less likelihood of cheating, essentially.

Michael Michelini: Okay. So maybe with staff, if there are some issues with staff or you know if we amend or make amends if someone if somebody should immediately face or shall we face it directly as a west foreigner we have somebody like a mediator?

Marcus Maher: Ah ok so as far as dealing with staff goes up, I think one of the first things as far as dealing with staff goes is your relationship with them. The reality is your in China you don’t really know much but you’re in charge they actually know what’s going and they’re underneath you.

Marcus Maher: They used to be managed by Chinese people. Chinese business owners who tell them “I’m the boss. Do what I say.”. However, what we require of them is and it takes time to get them there is we have to have a good relationship with them. We have to be telling them “Look, I have this idea. I think this should be what we’re doing. Going forward.” Thoughts “Guys is what we’re about to do a good idea or bad idea? Does anyone have some important insight as to why this is a terrible idea?”

Marcus Maher: This relationship you have with your staff is so important. What I found is actually they are incredibly good at giving you great insights and it almost gets to the stage where they can be running the company for you. And it just massively avoid dumb mistakes. So you definitely have to avoid a dictatorial approach and you have to embrace this partnership.

Marcus Maher: Now the downside to this partnership is sometimes they become a little bit belligerent if you don’t take their suggestions on board so it really is explaining why in this instance you’re not gonna be taking any suggestions on board and why are you going in a specific direction.

Marcus Maher: And maybe it’s related to something that you know because you’re a foreigner and I’m may not be relevant to them because it’s Judy from the western market but really, it’s at that dialogue that is so important and once you have that relationship with them.

Marcus Maher: Once you talking to them as almost as equals as supposed to talking down to them so many problems that other people might face you won’t be facing.

Michael Michelini: True.

Marcus Maher: Yeah.

Michael Michelini: I think also maybe having these regular dinner parties or you know activities maybe with your staff and is also great and I think if one gets offended or something I think also sometimes we’re westerners are more direct, right? A little bit of type A kind of specially for that in another foreign country where entrepreneurs you know so sometimes I might got offend them because some certain staff might be more sensitive.

Michael Michelini: So, I sometimes you know try not to be direct like saying “you’re wrong.” Or “you made a mistake.” Because they might lose phase or you know get offended right or?

Marcus Maher: Absolutely! As far as managing old people no one really wants being told as dumb or they did something wrong. I think it’s always best to focus on the positive. And um yeah, it’s just treating them with respect and having a conversation. A smile goes a long way. Yeah, just having essentially a good relationship with them is the key.

Michael Michelini: Cool! Okay so we’re getting towards the end and you know we always wanted to put in some stuff, stories or context. Do you have anything base on what we talked about that you can share about partners and employees and relationships here?

Marcus Maher: Yeah. Well, one of, there’s one business partner I have that we’ve established 2 companies together. Both of being successful. His name is Marshall Taplits. The interesting thing about him is we’re quite different. He’s Jewish, I’m not religious. He’s an introvert, I’m more on the extrovert. He’s an American, I’m Australian. Being a self-technology guy, he is a self-confess geek. Where is I’m sort of more on extreme sports.

Marcus Maher: Um my background you could probably calls more on sales and marketing, his background more on technology. So, the interesting thing here is that we’re quite different. We’re almost polar opposite but it works. He’s strong where I’m weak, I’m strong where he’s weak.

Marcus Maher: When he’s working on something related to technology and deliver some business-related question, I can’t really interfere too much and so that reduces arguments. If I’m working on something sales and marketing wise he’s going to trust my call on it.

Marcus Maher: So, we’re also minimizing our um opportunities to argue. And the beautiful thing is, he’s strong where I’m weak, I’m strong where he’s weak. It’s just strategically, it’s beautiful. It makes the partnership really good and really strong.

Marcus Maher: So, you know if you’ll looking for that partner, I think the secret is finding someone who isn’t like you at all. Who can do all the things that you can’t do and that will positively impact the business as much as possible. So yeah shout out to Marshall Taplits.

Michael Michelini: Great! Yeah, Marshall’s a good friend of mine too. I’ll link him up on the show notes so you can check out his uh, he’s also a prolific entrepreneur with different businesses, family businesses and uh all kinds of things.

Michael Michelini: So, thank you so much Marcus. I know this is a tough topic with a lot of different angles. So, you did a great job as how about what are you up to today? Or I’m sure people are interested to? Of course, I’ll put your Linkedin and other things on the show notes. But is there any business you’d like to highlight for listeners? About what you’re working on?

Marcus Maher: Um yes, so if you’re going to operate in China or even Asia, to be very very aware of what’s going on up in Beijing. The new ruler of China Xi Jinping, he’s got his one belt one road strategy. So, to me that’s very important. If the leader of the country with a 1.4 Million people and one of the fastest growing business economy in the world, well it’s decided that one belt one road is important. I’d got to be listening.

Marcus Maher: So, my focus has shifted a little more consultancy type of opportunities. There are a lot of Chinese companies and a lot of rich Chinese people now that starting to focus on Southeast Asia, Asia the Pacific and Africa. So that’s what I’m doing right now, basically spending a lot of time problem solving for large companies and super reach people. And it’s really really pleasurable. It’s great!

Michael Michelini: Alright Marcus! So, thank you so much and it this is a tough topic to discuss and I’m really happy you agreed to come on and share. So, I’m sure listeners are excited to maybe ask you some questions or check you out? What is the best way people can reach out?

Marcus Maher: If anybody has questions or want some insights, please go to globalfromasia.com/marcus and I’ll answer any question there.

Michael Michelini: Ok great! Thanks and enjoy the rest of your time here and great to have you in the show.

Marcus Maher: Thanks a lot, Michael!

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Michael Michelini: Thank you Marcus! For coming on and sharing so openly and I’m sure this will be another popular show and if you guys can thank him for that, that would be amazing!

And also, don’t forget Cross Border Summit 2017 in April 14th and 15th 2-day event here in Shenzhen, China. English language international. We got people from UK already interested, America already interested and Holland and all around it’s going to be pretty awesome.

So, I’m really excited and we’re going to work hard this 5 or 6 months now so let’s see how the world turns out by then you know 2016 is almost over can you believe that we have Barrack exit and Trump and a lot of other things happening. The King of Thailand passed away which while I was actually in Thailand when it happened and as business owners know that’s part of the risk of the politics and international business but we just to have stay nimble and keep an open mind and keep on learning.

Enjoy your week everybody and see you next week episode 50 next week. Take care! Buh-bye!

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