Onto the Next Supplier & Our Small Order Hassles with Chris Gormley

Michael MicheliniEcommerce Series, Podcast0 Comments


Well, last week’s show got a bunch of rise from listeners – thanks for that. I can feel the love and glad you are enjoying and engaging with what we are doing here. It has been a quite emotional ride here with Lorenzo and Roland heading up the operations side and sourcing – a part of e-commerce that I am not a fan of at all! We bring them back on the show from last week, and also I am pulling in some experts to help us – Chris Gormley, an American manufacturing expert who was our our podcast way back in 2013 and 2014 timeframe in episode 9 and 23 – he comes on to give us some perspectives, enjoy

Topics Covered in this Episode

  • Intro Chris, Lorenzo, and Roland

    Introducing our partners and special guests

  • A Listener’s Letter

    Reading parts of an extensive email Mike got from a listener from last week’s show

  • Lorenzo’s Report from his Factory Visit

    Last Saturday, Dec 9, 2017, Lorenzo spent another day in factory land Yong Kang, China talking to “back up” suppliers as – the first supplier seems fed up with us and our small order and terms in our contract.

  • Is our Order size too small?

    Discuss with Chris. We have actually increased from 500 pieces to 1,000 pieces.

  • Local workshops in China

    What is the size of the factory we are dealing with? Is it the right size?

  • Is this Normal

    Chris weighs in with the scoop we are dealing with and is this common or not

  • Negotiating with Chinese Suppliers

    Strategies, and ideas of what we can do.

  • Stories of Other Factories Rejecting Orders

    Is this normal? Everything is a negotiation. This isn’t Japan.

  • Increasing our order Size again?

    Should we order even more than 1,000 pieces?

  • Factory’s Real Time Response

    Roland got feedback from one of the workshop suppliers in Wechat as we were in the recording. What did they say?

  • Steps For Next Stages

    What is the game plan for next stages?

People / Companies / Resources Mentioned in this Episode

Episode Length 41:20

Well, this is getting intense. As the name of this sub-series says – Ecommerce Gladiator – we are the seller. We are the “man in the arena” in the colosseum.

I appreciate the letter from the listener last week – that we are too small and why are we buying from China. We should go to a local distributor or wholesaler. This is the struggle so many SMEs are going through. Where in the supply chain do we fit? We want to make our own brand – PL – Private Label (Para Living Inc!) and the struggle is real. We can increase our order size, we have $32,000 USD in the business bank account in America. Its about risking capital upfront. But may have to increase order size for sure.

Also I will talk to the team and may be more active in the decision making process. I have been a bit democratic as many listeners have been saying. Jeez, I feel so much more exposed and out there, getting more challenging for me to keep this weekly update going – but think these are the most helpful and valuable for all of you, so see you next Friday.

Picture of Roland working and driving….

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Podcast Transcription

Welcome to the Global from Asia Ecommerce Gladiator Series where you can follow along the progress of setting up a Cross Border Ecommerce business from start to finish. Hear insights of real product research, Amazon FBA, China manufacturing, branding, marketing, and all the blood, sweat, and tears of building a global business from Asia.

Enjoying the Global From Asia podcast, wanna meet with other listeners podcast guests at business experts then you're in luck. Every year we have our annual Cross Border Summit. This year is our third annual in Shenzhen China Cross Border Summit, it's a 2 day conference. Mark your calendars April 20th and 21st of 2018. It's a great time to get together and learn about import and export Amazon FBA, e-commerce importing into China and global business. So we hope to catch you there www.crossbordersummit.com/2018

Mike: E-commerce gladiator from Global From Asia episode 21 and we're little bit nervous to update you guys. I got a really passionate email from our listener that I really appreciate and I'm glad that you guys are engaged also. Josh Whiting in New York, we worked together a bit with my previous e-commerce business. Shipping bar products in New York City on 2nd and 2nd Avenue. That was crazy times Josh. Thanks for listening. Thank you guys, I think it's the truth about content creation and the stuff you are scared to post and the stuff here might be embarrassed about posting sometimes the most popular. And we are in the heat of it. We are in the heat. I got a little bit emotional today. It's very frustrating and it's reminding me why I kind of took a break from e-commerce and I did a mobile app and startup in China where I met my wife and all that crazy stuff in North China. Bored back, I'm back in the game, I'm a gladiator and we are really being a gladiator with this latest show. So last week, we said that we almost, we didn't cancel relationship with that supplier but we're talking to other suppliers and real time during the show. Roland get some interesting news from one of our new replacement factories. We've increased our order size from 500 to 1,000 'coz seems nobody wants to be bothered with that smaller order and I bring my friend and previous guest on the show Chris Comley. He's been in China for 15 years or so and he's the owner of the factory himself. He's an American, does LED manufacturing and we got Roland and Lorenzo back on the show and I'm getting a lots of feedback about how we make decisions in the company. After the show I'm gonna give some ideas of next episode of making decisions as a team and everything. So let's listen in.

Mike: So we're at episode 21 of the Gladiator Series here at Global From Asia E-commerce Gladiator. I think last week show got some feedback from our listeners and we have an exciting one to talk about today. Things are happening as we record. So before we get into it, we have Lorenzo and Roland back on the show from last week. They are partners in Paraliving Inc. and thanks for coming back on guys.

Lorenzo: Hey guys, happy to be here.

Roland: Hi everyone.

Mike: Awesome and then we have a friend of mine and guest has been on for a long time. Actually, Chris Comley you are on episode 9, I'd look it up and episode 23 way back with everything. So Chris we thought it would be great you come back on the show. You've been wrestling with suppliers in your own business, you specialized in LED's and their partner in LED factory in Shenzhen. So I think you said some of the stuff I caught you up on before the recording you says normal anyway. So I know Lorenzo and Roland and I'm super stress this reminding me how stressful sourcing is. But before we get started, I wanted to give a quick summary of really long email I got from last week's show. He talked to me before but I know he doesn't like to reveal his name so I won't reveal his name but he's our regular listener. It's another great podcast this morning on my commute and he's like "wow you guys are so freaking green, you need to build a relationship with the factory". And then he says yeah Chris basically we're stressed out because it seems they might make it for Chinese New Year if we order now. So we feel like that's crazy 'coz Chinese New Year isn't until middle of February. So obviously if we don't get the order until after Chinese New Year which would be like end of February, it takes a month to ship maybe a few weeks to ship to the US. It means like end of March, finally getting the product into Amazon sales. It's been crazy. But he seems to think this listener that this is normal because it's the busiest time of the year to ship before the Chinese New Year. The economy is booming globally and so many people are making orders and we're small buyer, we're trying to do 500 piece order for few thousand dollars of this coffee makers. He's saying why don't we deal like a distributor in our home country or deal with wholesaler or dealing with the factory should be a bigger order any way. There's a lot of other things we need to know and of course what happened was, Chris when we sent the contract to the factory last week and they rejected it and they basically almost, basically said we're not, they don't wanna do business with you anymore. So we actually found a new supplier now. So Lorenzo do you wanna give us an update. 'Coz last show you were gonna go down to Jujiang province and Yongkang and all these.

Lorenzo: Yeah, I did. On Saturday I went to visit 2 office suppliers which were first 2 that we initially shortlisted. I went there, it went well. We agreed on the term and all that. First of all, the first one was a big trading company which is also another supplier for biggest name in our niche, biggest competitor. Everything went well, we agreed on the terms and the details on payments, the time frame, and everything. And then after that we went to the second one, same deal, we agreed on everything. I took a lot of notes, I keep my notebook with me. And then 2 days later on Monday, when I messaged back first supplier which was to me the one that, I wanted, I had the best feedback from. They were the most professional, no language barrier because sales people spoke pretty good English and all that. So I messaged them and we agreed on 500 units. They said yes even though they're doing MLQ's 2,000 units but they can do 500 unit order for the first order. They messaged me on Monday morning saying, Okay so let's get going then send me the contract for 500 and then the girl replied back "Oh I'm sorry to tell you we can't do 500 at the factory, we cannot do it". They can only do 1500 units and you can increase it. So that's what, it didn't work out with the first one and we have to go back with the second one. The second supplier was basically as Ino our QC guy coined them to be a workshop. That's pretty much a workshop. They are small factory but everything is old school, old fashion type of business. And with them communication wasn't the best because the girl barely speak any English and all that and I have to repeat myself 3 times with Ino just to get the basic fact from them. And we did agreed on 500 units as first order just to test the product and all that. So I messaged her again and then now we've been going through a lot of back and forth headache. Couple of times today and yesterday the deal seem dead. She told us twice also it's complicated we can't do it, communication too hard. And we have to use our utmost self control and to try to be as diplomatic as possible to sweet talk to do business with us. So now we talked among ourselves maybe 500 unit is too small, so let's raise that to 1,000 units. That's what we did, I messaged back the first supplier, the trading company said "listen, we have good news for you, we increased our order from 500 to 1,000 and they still told us that's too small, factory cannot do 1500 because they're super busy right now". We even reach back to the first supplier that we spent almost a month trying to do business with. Even to them we told them listen we are willing to increase our order for 500 to 1,000 and still the same thing he said, it's not a matter of order size, but right now the factory is pretty much super busy and tell the end of Chinese New Year so they cannot fulfill that order right now. So that's we are right now and today.

Mike: Today has been crazy.

Lorenzo: And also one thing that really, really, for me. Just one thing that I want.

Mike: Yeah, maybe Roland. Go ahead. Roland can update us today.

Lorenzo: Yeah, what's going on?

Roland: It's funny 'coz I'm more to testing so much. I'm coming from a factory. My country on the highway driving. The contract on the podcast call and negotiating with this factory through a translator and they say guys are not good at most in testing, okay. So basically she's asking get for deposit and get the money now. I just told her that as soon as she signed the contract, will be sending her the money. She just send us her RMB Chinese Yuan bank account number and details. Right now, we're waiting for the new factory to sign the contract so we can release the first 30% down payment.

Lorenzo: Awesome. So I just want to add when key things that's really been frustrating for me is that with all 3 suppliers, we've agreed on all the terms verbally, physically and person at their office and the factory. And then the next day or 3 days after when I try to confirm that on WeChat or via email and all that then say it's not the price they give us. Despite the fact that we have confirmed everything in person and even, for example the pricing for example on the supplier we're working on right now for the packaging and all that. She sent even for the basic cost, she sent us a purchase invoice for the price that we have agreed on. And then later on, she's telling us that the prices are not the correct one and the new price even higher. That something has been extremely frustrating for me and I have to be ultra, I mean super calm because that was making me fuming like crazy.

Mike: Yeah, so Chris I know that we just caught you up but. We're really frustrated 'coz even following at the beginning we start this company in like August, launch. And it's December now and we're getting this numbers like won't get the first shipment until March. It's like.

Lorenzo: We started sourcing back early October. Our initial plan was to get everything done and ship Amazon by say end of October or early November. Maybe with you optimistic or naive.

Mike: Well, we're trying to make Christmas.

Lorenzo: Exactly, that was our point. Get the piece of the action for Christmas, Black Friday, good stuff. But now it's almost I mean, we past Christmas now and still nothing then.

Mike: Yeah so Chris, what do you feeling from here and all of these?

Chris: I may have said a lot of questions about of different things you said. And I didn't really take notes along the way. But just a few things that pop up my head is, did they say why they can't make your order and a month or 6 weeks or 2 months, how long what it takes.

Mike: The funny thing is Chris, they always say on their quotations sometimes 25 days, sometimes 30 days. They always say, all this suppliers I think, Roland would agree. But then once we, what happen the last time was we sent them the contract and it says that if you're late by this 30 days we take a percent off each day your late. And that's when they said sorry we can't do business with you. Actually we're not gonna be delivered until after Chinese New Year, this is too small order blah, blah. But all before that, they were saying a month. But the reason they ran away or got really fed up with us once we send the contract, they'll get penalties when they're late. And this one said also 25 days today and they want us to send the money to them and literally Roland is talking to them on WeChat as we're doing this phone call and interview. They're sending us the bank account details, they want the money. We're trying to get them sign the contract before we send them the money. 'Coz you know when we send them the money and then it seems like they say 25 or 30 days. But the reason they're saying now is the busy season which Chinese New Year coming. I wish we get that order before Chinese New Year. Also this listener sending us this long email also says probably we should get the order by the end of November to get pre-Chinese New Year order finish. So I think the reason they're saying is gonna be later is everybody is ordering to get they're order finish before Chinese New Year.

Chris: I guess I mean specifically, what's the issue. Sometimes they tell you, listen we don't have enough machines in the middle certain way, not enough machines, or packaging supplier has an MLQ of 1500 units so we need like talk to him and he's usually busy right now. There's a lot of different reasons why they might take a long time and I think the key is to find what that reason is. 'Coz sometimes it's just something very small that you can solve easily. But maybe requires a little bit more money or like a little bit more effort and the sales girl most of them don't want to deal with the, I mean. Normally I would, if something to buy something that's gonna be manufactured for me, I don't understand the process of how it's made and what components are coming in and then like work away from there.

Mike: Yeah, when were trying to order this special plastic baskets, there's like MLQ of 2,000. So we're just gonna have extra stock of like a thousand pieces. But Roland seems like something to say.

Roland: I think they did not include the RMB fees only the USD and she only wants to accept RMB's and that's the reason she cannot sign it. Lorenzo if you're on the computer can you please update that to RMB with the exchange rate that we're talking about.

Lorenzo: Yeah, it's 7.3, okay. Got it.

Mike: Alright, but I mean, I guess hopefully she does, I think for us we just want to make sure we get this on time. But this is a good questions Lorenzo for you to ask why they, is there a ways we can help them make it faster or help them to take some pressure of.

Lorenzo: Well, the only explanation I got was from Bower last week and also from the trading company and they both know the same thing. The factory is too busy and our order is too small. And that's basically the bottomline. The bottomline is they're too busy right now and they cannot fulfill our order up until after the Chinese New Year. Let me just find the answer and I will even read exactly.

Mike: I think Chris the other reason is we are, even that we do have the company's funded. We've raised money for the company. We don't wanna put this money on one order or 1 SKU's. So 500 piece order, for other is a piece obviously is not a lot of money, it's like 150, like couple of thousand bucks. So we did increased to a thousand pieces but we've been also just conservative about how many pieces were trying to order. They keep saying seems like they only do 2,000 pieces from what this factory seems to say. I think they just.

Chris: Sounds like it's a 100% negotiation to me. It's not like, it's like an answer that.

Mike: Yeah, they just basically say we're not as important as to them as we have so many other orders. We already booked up. The last supplier we were talking for like a month. Lorenzo went there multiple times to their factory. They just like got fed up, I guess we work kind of back and forth a lot with them. But they said they were too small and too much trouble it feels like they said to us.

Lorenzo: I think on that I'd like to add something. I got some feedback from Eno. Because Eno told me our term especially with the penalties and all that were maybe too strict for them. And also because our order is too small. It's not like we're ordering let's say 5,000 units or 10,000 units. We don't have the same leverage and power with them as if, it was a big order for 500 order units. From what Eno told me, it's almost like their doing us a favor by accommodating us for that small order and we cannot expect them with all those very strict terms for late fees. That's what Eno give me feedback because I asked his opinion. He's a very experienced guy.

Mike: Yeah sure, just so people know. Eno is from Insight Quality. They've been helping us a lot in the show and the business. But also we want to make sure people know that Insight Quality one of our supporters in this venture. But Chris, the thing that annoys me is you can't do 25 days, why even tell us 25 days and wait until we send the contract that has penalties if you don't deliver the time you say you're gonna deliver. Like they just seem to throw 25 days on it and send it to us. But you know Chris, they got offended, even Lorenzo has been telling us on WeChat group we don't wanna offend them. But we are the customers, it's like they're doing us a favor by letting us buy from them at a small MLQ. And by us saying if you're late there's gonna be repercussions. They got offend and turned us away. I think like the way I look at it, you're not in Japan, you're not the only Japanese like being offended. You're acting like you're offended in negotiations. But we never worry about that all. You kind of asking for what you want and then any response you gets a point for negotiation on. If somebody told me sorry we can't make your order in time. I would ask them why and if basically like not ordering enough then that's the true answer that they couldn't make your order in time. But they don't care enough.

Mike: Yeah, I think that's what they, I put that email with the sense of information but I put  her response in the last week's show. It's like Dear Lorenzo, we double checked your contract and noticed general terms time of shipment if the order is not received within 30 days to sign this contract force mature a 1% deduction total blah, blah. She says sorry we cannot accept this item. We never do 1% per day before. The most was 2% after 2 weeks and 5% for 3 weeks. Also, this order schedule has been delayed and long enough in time of busy season. Factory start holiday before the end of January, PO has already arranged fully, new orders almost cannot be delivered before CNY. That's basically what she was saying. So it seemed they didn't like this term and then they said, you know what we're sorry of this back and forth, we're not gonna deliver until after even we start manufacture this, until after Chinese New Year was their response to our contract.

Chris: Well, it sounds like they rejected your terms of your negotiation.

Mike: Okay, so right now just literally like you heard Roland saying. But Roland I hope you are listening if they accept, one thing, but the main point is we update the term that term will they accept this contract? I think it's the question. Rather than wasting our time to check the other points of the contract.

Roland: Basically, she's saying that, since we're trying to make so many customization on the boxes and have them sent the contract with the fact what we want, she's confused. Because we asked her about many things before and she's going back to negotiations pretty much. So they were talking about what she can do and what she cannot do. And now she's telling me, I feel like it's like the language barrier even though we have a translator now that she's going back to,  "Oh I thought you need this thing gasket and that thing gasket and so on. Even though that we already agreed that she cannot do that and we accepted that.

Mike: Yes, so we're ordering some components from other suppliers Chris and now seems like they thought that we want of those from what I understand Roland was saying. But I think she's just, 'coz we have this contract that we, we should have said to our last factory but it was very clear I said in English and Chinese if you're late this happens, and also it has to be to this exact spec attachment A and attachment A had a list of all the specifications and picture and design which I insist, it's just that we did, I'm happy we did  'coz that was made them reject us. Because this one's now seeing that contact for the first time and telling us that they didn't know we wanted that, even though seems like it was agreed on.

Roland: Is this a very big factory.

Lorenzo: What we're doing, dealing right now with the very small one.

Roland: So maybe the person you are speaking to is the sales person and the owner?

Lorenzo: The owner I don't believe so but probably the sales supervisor or some people and management.

Chris: Alright so if it's a very small one, it's possible that they’re too busy, the only stuff and maybe they don't really understand and if they are making a mistakes then they risk us and it's not gonna hit the ship time because they made a mistake and there's a misunderstanding and there's a penalty and they'll get paid less. So I mean if a small supplier that's doing that for me, I probably go there in person and literally work 3 steps, like hand in hand.

Lorenzo: That's what I did on Saturday, I went through every single item on our order exactly all the details we want, every little, I explained that and repeated that 3 times with the help of our QC guy Eno. So that's what I did on Saturday. And even that was confusing because you would ask her one thing, she would say one thing, so I will take my notes and after were just repeating just to confirm, just to make sure that there's no misunderstanding and that she would quite often say, "Oh no, that's not what I said". And that happened a few times. It was very frustrating and I said "Hey lady that's exactly what you told me, look at my notes". I took the notes 5 minutes before in front of you and she's saying no, no. That's what I've been telling you guys that I'm having some, that's the place I have the least.

Roland: Guys, my god.

Lorenzo: What's happening?

Roland: I don't even wanna say it on the podcast.

Mike: I think that's what make it interesting. I think.

Roland: Last message I give up this order from supplier.

Lorenzo: Yeah, I see that.

Roland: I just really wanna call them but I'm unable to call them.

Lorenzo: Maybe we would ask the Chinese person that's helping us, now she knows more about what's going on.

Mike: I don't understand Chris, they rejected it, they don't bargain. They just see, I think it's the late, they see us too difficult that we want to list out all our specifications and this late penalties but they if they don't like the late penalty why can't they bargain with us. But it just seems like their gonna be, but they're being, seems it's just gonna be late to us then. Well, I guess, right?

Chris: I mean, maybe she doesn't think it's worth her time to negotiate it. It's 2,000 order and say they're not gonna make it a thousand bucks out of it. Like what's the value of their time to deal with.

Roland: Now, the translator is trying to call her. So hopefully she's gonna to be able to do this. But basically during the day of negotiation the terms that we're gonna be paying. She said that and I also said that we would like to increase the bulk size and she said that okay let's talk about it after we discuss the currency. We discussed the currencies and then we try to increase the size of the box and she said that I cannot believe you’re changing again even though she said that let's discuss this after the currency.

Lorenzo: Mind you that's exactly what happened to me.

Roland: I mean, seriously what is going on.

Lorenzo: I've been telling maybe we should also give a rub. Because she's not worth it, it's not able to follow simple instruction. Seriously. Maybe we should look for, because honestly we already missed Christmas and all the shopping season. Might as well wait for few more days and find an actual supplier that actually understand us in a business way. Because I'm sure, maybe other suppliers in the region if not.

Roland: And sure we've been doing that for 3 months now Lorenzo.

Lorenzo: I know, I know and I'm anxious as you buddy. I want to get going and make money asap, I know. But better be doing it the right way and not get lose all that.

Chris: I'm trying to ask, I've heard this pretty much exact thing conversation thousand of times probably. It's so common everyone has this issue.

Lorenzo: Yeah, so listener keep that in mind. Be patient. You need to be extra patient.

Mike: But I mean, what about. Seriously Chris I mean do you wanna spend 10 grand on 1 SKU that we haven't tested in the market and Amazon. I mean we couldn't just spend 10 grand on 1 product. And they like listen to us but this is what I like, I told people on the show, I started with dropshipping. I dropship in wholesale in the US when I started my first e-commerce bar product business. This is kind of bit different for me 'coz we are going from kind of backward. We're doing direct from the factory and so this has been so challenging and they want high order sizes and we don't want to do a huge order size and we order from Yiwu and it was just a crap quality, we had it reject. So I mean I guess they just don't like this late penalty thing, seems like it really gonna offend them because both of them see that.

Roland: Right now, it's not about the late penalty, right now it's about her not being flexible because our order size is only a thousand pieces.

Mike: It's actually 2,000. We double the order size just couple of days ago. Last week we're doing 500 pieces now we're going up to a thousand and roughly 4.50 each, 4500 dollars.

Lorenzo: Mike, it's a suggestion. The trading company said, the factory's minimum I mean they would only entertain us as long as we can do 1500 units. How about we increase the order from 1,000 to 1,500.

Mike: This keeps on happening we're from 500 to 1,000 then 1,500.

Lorenzo: But at least we'll be dealing with the professional company that actually will do business.

Mike: So I mean as far as the investment that would be about what is that gonna be like, 7500 dollars. Our investment, we started about 40,000 dollars investment in the company. We spent money on legal fees and corporation fees and other fees. We're like 32,000 dollars in the bank right now, in the US Bank of America and Send Wire. So it's gonna like 32,000 dollars we sent 7,000 on 1 SKU that we haven't sold yet. I mean that's about 32,000 dollars, what is that like quarter of the order. It's like a third, I'm getting embarrassed to my math but that significant amount of our money, I want product .I don't know, Chris is saying it's a business person but roll the dice I want SKU, a third of our order. I mean third of our investment, quarter of our investment.

Chris: I mean if it was me and I felt very secure that we have a market for it and in the beginning of the market for it then you can like liquidate it and get some money back at the end of it, even if you shoulder that cost ‘coz it didn’t workout for you. Then like why not. And at the same time if you're not gonna get many unit and you have, I don't know how many guys in your company you have to have enough volume to make sense. You're going to sign 500 units, that's not really gonna.

Mike: We always tell it wasn't, obviously we knew it wouldn't be a lot. But the main person doing a little volume is to test the market, which is not, it's not about.

Chris: Why don't you buy 10 or 20?

Mike: Yeah you're right, actually that's what I'm started doing with the bar supplies was like I lost money on my orders. I used to sell before I had it.  I didn't have a dropshipper and then when I got the order, I'd order it retail from my supplier or my wholesaler ship it direct to the customer, made a retail but on a wholesale price.

Chris: Yeah and if you need a customizations like for 10 pieces, you can do it by hand or by like smaller batch machines.

Mike: I guess the real reason we can't do 10 or 20 is, we want it to be our private label, PL, packaging in Amazon listing. We wouldn't have any, unless, I guess we can go to the US and import a box with our logos on it. Put another mocha pot, whatever something, but they have all their brand on it. I guess.

Chris: Yeah, how was the brand put on it? Is it like laser letter. So there's a guy properly promise you this gotta be 50 machines with a 3 mile radius on where you at right now that you put a laser that it takes about, I don't know maybe half an hour to set it up, maybe 20 seconds per machine.

Mike: You talked about in China?

Chris: Why not, you can do also do it in New York. There's like makers do it for you. The main goal is to get out there and test it.

Mike: What 10 pieces? I guess we couldn't ask the factory. The factory seems they send us couple of samples, I guess it's like 10, I mean, I guess that's the point we could have buy 10 from the factory.

Roland: Not only about being, broke the product in several.

Mike: Yeah we did make, we did read on feedbacks on Amazon. They are negative reviews on competitors and there's a few different adjustments we've made to the handle and the sealant for leaking and just few modifications we've made. I don't know if we could make answer on today's show. Next week. I mean we talked with other team and we got think about it but it seems like we're going to the trading company with the 1500 MLQ as a potential order. I mean I do believe this can be sold or liquidated in the market. But I think maybe with enough, I appreciate Chris' time, I don't even clock on this. I don't even know how long we have been talking but I think hopefully this, better be valuable for the listeners. I think this is really amazing insights in real time action. But it's really challenging for the small SME's like I know how hard it is, we're here in China, Lorenzo and I and still there's still a challenge that's what got me out in China 10 years ago. I was also frustrated doing this remotely from the US on Skype and Alibaba and global sources in the middle of the night. It's still hard being here. I think what we have to think about, to wrap up today's call is do we increase order size and go with the hire MLQ with a factory or from the supplier. I think that's the main decision at this point, is to increase the order size or maybe try to get 10 pieces made and send it. Also a fair point, just to rush, it's almost missed Christmas it's gonna be, over for the show while the show we're online. But it's impossible to get it for Christmas. But we just send some smaller amounts to Amazon. That's the point we get some production samples sent there. Alright Chris, do you have any final words for us?

Chris: I don't know if I have given you advice, it's really viable just feels like what you're going through is pretty normal thing that helps it all. It's just going through selecting your suppliers and forget your product for whatever it is you have, it's taking, some over time. When you're doing your 10,000 and 20,000 pieces of order hopefully you don't have this issues.

Roland: You know Chris, this is not only a coffee maker. It's a bundle  of different accessories that can be used to make coffee and decorate coffee and stuff. And that's the reason we have like a custom box that includes the entire set, including the coffee maker. So having 10 of each and just packaging it off would have a cost that wouldn't to join business. And right now we're so close that I don't think.

Mike: Well, I don't think, we're not gonna cancel. I mean it just seems like what's leading towards going to the 1500 MLQ supplier. I just feel like and this call and our discussion with the 4 of us, it seems like we have to increase into another 500 pieces. That's basically what I feel is like happening right now. Or do we keep trying to find a supplier that's willing to do less. Which seems like a stress.

Roland: I mean, yeah. 1500 dollar is the big factory's MLQ so with that maybe we're not supposed to have any problem of whatsoever, because that's where they can customize well. And we wouldn't have to go with the small workshop that is unable to speak our language or understand us.

Lorenzo: This time Mike. That's exactly the matter of order size, it's a matter of, they're busy right now.

Mike: I agree. But of course, but Lorenzo I think if we order, if we order 10,000 I'm sure it can be faster, right Chris. If we order 10,000 pieces, it'll be faster.

Chris: Yeah but actually what that means is that they're not too busy. It means that they don't care. It's like if you ask a girl to go out with you on like Friday night and she's like now, I'm too busy. But if you ask her for the weekend maybe she's not too busy.

Mike: So I think that, I guess Lorenzo, I guess we just go back to that 200 piece one. But I don't know I feel like we got to decide how much we want to invest on this first order, I think it's the other thing like it's about 7,000 or 8,000 dollars plus shipping but that's a bigger decision for the company. I think that's the main thing.

Lorenzo: Another option would be Mike, I don't know just think out loud maybe we could look for another product to source right now. A product not as customized, smaller amount that we could send on the next 30 days, we can have it should before they say that end of January. So we can have something going while we still find the right factory to work with us to make that highly customized coffee product, that's one thing.

Mike: Okay, well we are. I mean Roland's got some products in the pipeline you guys some products.

Lorenzo: Make sure yeah. I have quite a few.

Mike: We do have other products on the pipeline and it could be coffee, I think that is happening, I know Roland's got some updates on some products. But I think let's wrap up today's call but I don't know if you wanna go back to that supplier right the 1500 one. We don't wanna waste, I'm not saying waste your time but I think we wanna make sure, we wanna make sure that we're serious to make that order before we go back to them. Maybe we got to go back to our team and have a vote on this.

Roland: Right now, I think we just need to take this workshop to proceed the order because we are so closed. It's just getting like, she's just bitching.

Mike: Well, we'll keep her by updating I think it has Roland til next week for updates for the team. And we'll keep talking. Thanks Chris for your time. I do appreciate it and everybody for listening.

Lorenzo: Thanks for the feedback Chris. Thanks everybody for listening to all our drama and what's going through. I hope you're learning from it.

Mike: Yeah, Cheers.

Roland: Alright, see you guys.

Mike: Well, actually I put a picture on the show notes at globalfromasia.com/episode021 and you can see Roland set up while he's driving at car with a laptop talking on a podcast, talking to a supplier on WeChat. This is dangerous actually. I mean I love the hassle but let's all be safe, okay. I know a lot of you guys are listening while you're driving. hopefully it won't make you go crazy while you're driving and goes to your morning commute like one of our great listeners. Thanks for the feedback again and thanks for feedback everybody about my voice and the tones and enjoying the show. We are in the battlefield, in the arena, in e-commerce gladiator. And Chris give me some feedback to and Meir and others that has been staying on my leadership, I've been too democratic and it's been slowing down the business and too many people involved in decisions. We got to talk with the team maybe it'll be next week's show's topic or at least we'll update you. But I think we got to make decisions faster and I do have experience with this stuff, honestly. But I hate the sourcing I mean that's why I enjoyed the interview and others about sourcing. I'm not a fan of dealing with factories, I'm not a fan of of fighting and pushing and negotiating all the time. I love internet marketing, I love content creation but I think I have to get more involved in this and more involved. We've been talking about increasing the order size. Seems like we have to increase our order size. It's scary, business is scary, we're gladiators, we're pushing forward. Man, 21 shows deep and there are some weeks I'm afraid to update you guys and we'll see what isup for next week. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Have a great day.

Global from Asia Ecommerce Gladiator Series where you can follow along the progress of setting up a Cross Border Ecommerce business from start to finish. Hear insights of real product research, Amazon FBA, China manufacturing, branding, marketing, and all the blood, sweat, and tears of building a global business from Asia.